Closed cut vs. tin

looks really good axiom nice depends on the job but i do my basic valley this way on a 30 yr dimensional hopefully this worked

anybody who perfers a closed valley roof in a climate that is cold and wet is a moron. Properly installed open valleys will outlast closed. I’ve been a engineer for twenty five years and have seen more problems with closed valleys than open valleys. The grit of shingles slows down the flow of drainage therefor when you have a sunny day and have snow on the roof the roof is not draining at a sufficient rate causing back and therefor more leaking and damage to your roof. PS a properly installed open valley looks good if the person who puts it in knows the difference between a hole in the ground and their ass. you can get valley flashing in different colors to avoid the shine that most people don’t like :roll:

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ditto Axiom.

gweedo

Used to only do open W style valley. From time to time a smart home owner would insist on the closed valley system. Of the hundreds and hundreds of roofs I personaly installed never had any leaks with the open valleys. Towards the end we would cut all the ears and even put half rows of W/I over the metal.

About 8 years ago one of my builders made us do closed valley with 20in metal. Within a year I had all my builders switched over and all the tear offs had them too. Never had an issue with the closed valley system.

What I do is lay a shingle upside down a couple inches past the center of the valley to protect the other roof from getting tar on it and it also protects from cutting too deep into the bottom shingle. All ears are cut too.

[quote=“smokeyj985”]
anybody who perfers a closed valley roof in a climate that is cold and wet is a moron. [/quote]

Thanks for calling myself (GAF master elite)and GAF (north americas largest roofing manufacture) morons.

thats what they tell me to do…thats what we do.

we actually cut the valley 1" off center so it doesnt catch debris.

Never had a valley call back!! :wink:

PGH, you should help everyone out & learn the value of a period (to end a sentence) & “enter” (to start a new paragraph).

With the closed valley you will have slightly more waste than an open valley.

A closed valley takes less time than an open valley to install. I don’t miss the days of having to set a 40ft valley with w valley by myself.

Open= straight valley metal plus two straight cuts.

Closed= one straight cut.

Been cut worse with roll valley rather than open valley.

It sounds like you pros cut the top layer of shingles after they are all installed. As a one time roofer I’ve found it easier to snap the line then cut each course as I nailed them down, I set a large bevel gauge to the correct angle then cut the shingle from the back. I guess this method is too slow for a professional who has to show a good amount of shingles nailed down each day.
Regards, DaveB

Your worried about my periods sheesh. There you go. Anyways everyone must admit that closed. Valleys always wear faster. They look cool but always look bad later. I do 20 year golden pledges and master elite just means you paid a lot of money but true they don’t want open valleys so you have to do it that way. Even system plus warranties cost more. Certainteed gave me my warranties. GAF makes sure your using all their materials is all. For golden pledge its 5 gaf products. I think their just trying to monopolize all of it. Their natural shadows might be the worst shingle ever made, but I do like the mid brown (barkwood). Gaf on my opinion is ruining the business.

I live in AK and the majority of the roofs have closed cut valleys. I have been roofing for 21 years and have been a shingler for 17 of them. I have not had any problems with a CC valley that was properly installed. I take great pride in the work I do and for you to come on this forum and in your first post start flaming other peoples way of roofing leaves little to be desired.

Keith

Just wanted to post my opinion strictly as a consumer…

Long story short I had my roof bid on by about 8 total contractors…6 of the 8 insisted on doing closed cut style valleys. My old roof had valleys and they performed well…but I figured these guys should know, right?

Picked a guy and he did the closed valleys…they looked OK I guess…

Aside from other issues (leaks, not attributable directly to the closed valley) I was ok with it…but I too wondered if the texture and grit of the valleys would slow down rain runoff…My roof is not a huge pitch and Iwatched as rain would meander its way down the valley…I have to believe that in the winter this would mean that there was more likelihood of the stuff freezing quicker…or maybe not.

Well, due to leaks, just had a big portion of my roof redone by someone else…30 years experience versus the first guys 10…he insisted on open valleys…

In this homeowner’s opinion, the metal valleys look much nicer and more “correct” at least with the shingles I have…no lumps or bumps where the two layers intersect, and a clear, straight path for runoff.

GAF ruining business?

I think your on to something with that statement. The other day a home owner called me and said he called GAF and asked about putting on a roof in the late Fall. The GAF rep said with the Timberlines unless it’s 65 degrees or warmer for so many days after installation you would need to apply roofing cement at the seams or the wind warranty would be void. I sort of laughed and said Landmark or Duration.

GAF must be noticing their Timberlines are blowing off roofs on houses next to Landmarks and Durations which have no wind damage.

BTW, I have to use all Certainteed products to offer the 4 star warranty.

GAF has 2 different lines of timberlines the “natural shadows” are the cheap crap line… they tear right where the laminates meet the head lap pulling them out of the pack… they might be the worst shingles out and i bet they won’t last but maybe 15 yrs before they De-laminate

Well GAF must be doing something right with how long they have been in business and with how much of their products are used.

GAF gives big incentive checks that’s about it. I don’t know a single roofer that prefers GAF I’m not talking salesman either GAF clearly shows how much they care just by how poorly their shingles come. Certainteed is my first choice than owens corning. I don’t likes owens because their not customer friendly. Again GAF is all about the dollar selling all their certs etc that anyone that’s willing to pay can have. They make 2 products I like shinglemate and liberty for low slopes their timberlines are just plain blah especially the lifetimes with the granuales on the back wtf is that?.

I used to hate GAF, I would do anything I could to persuade a customer to go with the Landmarks. Recently I have completely changed my ways. The GAF High Defs are the best shingles I have laid in a long time. They lay flat and are semi-square.

The last 5 CertainTeed roofs I’ve done have been terribly out of square. Even when snapping lines every 4th course. They’ve also seemed really soft.

I just did a 50 year GAF and was impressed. They even cut alot better. I didn’t have to use a sheers.

I most note. The old TimberLines are junk. I’ve seen 5 year old roofs that look 15

I think since they bought out/merged with Elk their products have become a lot better. I know majority of roofers around here use GAF. I do not see too many using certainteed. A whole 20 building condo unit put on the shingles they made with the organic junk in it and now we get to redo them all only a few years later. The Owens Corning surenail is a joke and is just an excuse for bad roofers to go faster.

I totaly agree. I just went to repair a roof with sure nail. I could break the seal with no effort by hand. The whole roof was barely sealed (1 year old).