Decra metal shingle vs. tear-off reshingle w/asphalt

I’ve done about 10 homes with a stone coated steel shingle. Most have been Metro Shingle, 2 with Metro Shake and recently a Decra Shingle. I recently proposed the Decra to my church installed over the two existing layers. Wanting to bring the best price to them I called around and stumbled upon a very good price at ABC Supply. I opened an account with them a couple years ago but they are priced very similarly with the smaller local operation we’ve always used on shingles so I assumed these prices would be close. Anyway the price is about $30 per sq. less, or around $155 per sq.

I have always tried to get about $100 per square for labor for a walkable pitch with these products, but my materials price has always been around $200 per sq. The going rate for a 1 layer ranch tear and reshingle here is $170-200 per sq. With this cheaper rate I can now present a much more competitive price to homeowners.

Assuming the decking is in good shape etc. why would I want to push anything else? My biggest concern with this product is the appearance and how long the stone coating will stay on. Anyone that’s put this on know’s when you lock it in, it aint going nowhere, and the metal will last forever.

So if these comparison are accurate is it a no-brainer?

Price for 50 square reroof $9700 - Decra $12000
30 year warranty - 50 year transferable
20 life span - Forever?
70 mph wind - 120 mph wind

Class 4 impact and wont burn.

Throw in the “green” aspect and potential insurance and heating/air savings which may be applicable. What am I missing here?

hello johnnyroofs,
my work is in the salt air.
had an issue with granual coated metal rusting.
but were your at it may not.
im sure youve looked at some (more than one) 10+ yr old granual coated roofs, to make shure that the product is going to atleast last that long.

good luck.

gweedo

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Decra is a great product when properly installed. if they are not cut or overlaped enough they will leak. We have fixed several roofs for Decra where other roofers did not overlap the ends enough and didn’t cut the locks where and as needed. As far as the granule’s i have yet to see a problem with them. As far a a lay over why would you let someone buy a 50 year product and spend as you said $155.00 per square and do a layover. if there intersted in a layover they must be trying to save money so why use a 50 year product. Think of how much the labor cost versus the materials. Roofing is very labor expensive don’t let someone waste thier money on a layover using a product that cost $155.00 a square. There are plenty of other options and ideas. :roll:

Hey FW, just curios, when you say they didnt overlap the ends enough do you mean on the panels themselves or on the hips, cap, etc. The nailing flange has a pretty obvious groove cut to show where they "should’ overlap. (dosen’t mean someone wouldnt ignore it) Also confused on what you’re referring to as “cut the locks”.

Quite simply $9700 vs $12000 = yes? 9700 vs 15000 = no!

I don’t want to sound argumentative but I’m having a hard time with “wasting thier money on a layover”, and what options could be better pricewise? If there are better options I want to know.

Many people are selling and using these products as layovers on purpose, it’s less burden on landfills and since you’re not ripping, you’re saving labor there and giving them a higher quality product. Your logic is illogical to me. My math in my head says these metal shingles are comparable to or cheaper than asphalt in this scenario, and I was considering going this direction myself. Maybe I’m wrong, it’s happened once or twice before…

your prices are too cheap!—you can always lower a price,but its hard to raise one after its given–look at your overhead ,and profit margin

You should put that around 600 a square and SELL the product and service.

[quote=“johnnyroofs”]Hey FW, just curios, when you say they didnt overlap the ends enough do you mean on the panels themselves or on the hips, cap, etc. The nailing flange has a pretty obvious groove cut to show where they "should’ overlap. (dosen’t mean someone wouldnt ignore it) Also confused on what you’re referring to as “cut the locks”.

Quite simply $9700 vs $12000 = yes? 9700 vs 15000 = no!

I don’t want to sound argumentative but I’m having a hard time with “wasting thier money on a layover”, and what options could be better pricewise? If there are better options I want to know.[/quote]

I feel as though layovers are a waste of money. Decra nor asphalt is not designed to be used as a layover. There is so much work involved in doing a layover properly such as cutting back the perimeter to install new drip edge, removing stepflashings and cutting back shingles, removing all flashings, removing all boots, installing new underlayment etc. Might as well spend a few more bucks and do it right and tear it off. At least then your customer will get the full life out of thier new roof. What is more expensive, the materials or the labor? Being that the labor is more than the materials i say doing it right the first time is the only way to go. Not to mention if they layover now, in the future how much will the labor part cost to tearoff 2 roofs instaead of just one. i tell people that layovers are penny wise and dollar dumb. As far my comment on overlapping I’m talking about the edge of the panels. Every panel must have a factory left edge on it. You must lay the shingles from right to left. The top clip lock must be flush with the next panel. They must touch or be no more than 3/16th of an inch apart. As far as cutting the locksat the bottom of the valley shingles the lock must be cut to allow water to drain down the valley pan. if the shingle lock is not cut the water will get trapped between the shingle and the valley pan. The first panel at the bottom of the valley you must cut out a 2inch notch and then cut out an additional 1inch notch 4inches from the panel edge. Decra will send you a free install video if you call them at 1-877-go decra hope this helps :slight_smile:

I haven’t used Decra, but if they lose quality on a layover then they suck as a metal roofing product. With the right size fastener, what drawback do you conclude from roofing over anything with metal if the framing can support it?

Again, your logic is illogical to me. Your logic applies to asphalt shingles since heat will soften the shingle and it will contour and fill voids, thus resulting in cracking and granule loss, and loss of life. Explain to me the drawback (aside from you stuffing a bank account) to overlaying with metal roofing.

[quote=“Severance & Gallant R”]I haven’t used Decra, but if they lose quality on a layover then they suck as a metal roofing product. With the right size fastener, what drawback do you conclude from roofing over anything with metal if the framing can support it?

Again, your logic is illogical to me. Your logic applies to asphalt shingles since heat will soften the shingle and it will contour and fill voids, thus resulting in cracking and granule loss, and loss of life. Explain to me the drawback (aside from you stuffing a bank account) to overlaying with metal roofing.[/quote]

I did NOT say these products lose quality when used as a layover. What I said was that layovers are a waste of money. Though you have have done them, I have done them, and so has every other roofer. Decra nor asphalt shingles were not designed for layovers. A roofing system installed as a layover more often than not does not make it to it’s full life expectency. My point is if someone is choosing a layover then there trying to save money correct? So why use a product that cost over $150.00 a square? Why not take that same money tear it off and do it right w/ a 30 year asphalt? Or let them save money with a layover and use asphalt. How much will the labor cost in 30 40 50 years to tear off two or three layers? How much will it cost to dispose of the old shingles at that time? I understand that Decra is a good product for a layover and your customers can save money by not tearing off but there spending it on material right? With all of the unknowns You nor I really know how long Decra will last as a layover.

[quote=“Severance & Gallant R”]I haven’t used Decra, but if they lose quality on a layover then they suck as a metal roofing product. With the right size fastener, what drawback do you conclude from roofing over anything with metal if the framing can support it?

Again, your logic is illogical to me. Your logic applies to asphalt shingles since heat will soften the shingle and it will contour and fill voids, thus resulting in cracking and granule loss, and loss of life. Explain to me the drawback (aside from you stuffing a bank account) to overlaying with metal roofing.[/quote]

I did NOT say these products lose quality when used as a layover. What I said was that layovers are a waste of money. Though you have have done them, I have done them, and so has every other roofer. Decra nor asphalt shingles were not designed for layovers. A roofing system installed as a layover more often than not does not make it to it’s full life expectency. My point is if someone is choosing a layover then there trying to save money correct? So why use a product that cost over $150.00 a square? Why not take that same money tear it off and do it right w/ a 30 year asphalt? Or let them save money with a layover and use asphalt. How much will the labor cost in 30 40 50 years to tear off two or three layers? How much will it cost to dispose of the old shingles at that time? I understand that Decra is a good product for a layover and your customers can save money by not tearing off but there spending it on material right? With all of the unknowns You nor I really know how long Decra will last as a layover.

Horrible customer service

DO NOT BUY DECRA! Safe yourself from a horrible experience.

Decra has the worst customer service and staff. Steer clear if you expect any follow up. They are an overpriced system especially for anyone that is not located near any of their warehouses (ex. California or Texas); for some reason even if you are closer to Texas, they will ship from California, not sure till this day how that makes any sense. The shipping costs are enormous and the demand is just not there. If you want any clarification around installation guidance or costs per square for materials, DO NOT ask Decra employees as they are useless. They will not provide accurate information. I’m not quite sure how they are still in business. They are a small company that do not stand by their customers but even worse, they hire incompetent employees. Not worth the hassle or the costs of installing this system.

Overlaying anything with anything is IMHO a “jackleg” way to go. One tiny pinhole leak and whatever has been covered up will absorb the water and hold it in contact with the decking. This means ROT and possible mold issues. We will do nailovers, but only when the customer CANNOT afford doing it right and they have active leaks. Realtors in my area are infamous for trying to convince a seller to recover, which leaves the buyer with a greater expence down the road.
I like being able to use a 15+ year old roof as a referance. :evil:

The Decra rep in our area in fact encourages installing Decra over an existing layer of asphalt shingles as Decra is not garanteed to be water proof. The fact that the Decra product does not over lap itself but a few inches is concerning. For the money I would rather sell a snap loc standing seam roof.

I don’t know how you can install Decra (or similar) for $300-400 / sq. It is SO much more labor intensive, it’s unbelievable. And lat time I got a quote for it, it was in the $220+ just for shingles, without VERY expensive accessories.

I agree with AaronB - sell it for at least $600 … I would not come in less than 800-900 here in Boston, as our labor and cost of living are very high. Sell the product and service - not commodity roofing.

+1

Wouldn’t touch it for those numbers. We lost money on the last two jobs of it.

We are owners of Barnhart Construction Company in Monticello Iowa. We started installing Decra shingles in 2003 and have approximately 2600 sq installed in Eastern Iowa. We repeatedly had an issue with a leaking roof put on in 2009. The customer kept calling after a rain and telling us he had leaks. Not dripping leaks, but his sheeting was wet. He had a walk in attic and would go up and check it out after every rain. Our first inclination was that the water was blowing in the ridge vent. We replaced the ridge vent, still had a problem. We went back several times and figured out the water was tracking back and wicking down the screws. We filed a claim with Decra, they sent a technician down who said the install was good, and he didn’t know why they were leaking. Decra’s answer was that we used too big of a screw (#12). If you look closely at their installation instructions as they were printed in 2009, they wanted at least 4 screws not smaller than a #8, and for high wind areas they wanted 4 #12 screws. So, we were following the high wind instructions. They also said the screw put in at an angle was tearing the shingles. Once again, they specify the one screw being put in at a 45 degree angle. We sent letters from our attorney, to no avail. We ended up hiring an independent engineer to come look at the project. We had made an agreement with the customer that we would remove the Decra shingles and put on Malarkey asphalt shingles. The engineer’s report states: “In our opinion, the water that infiltrates at the fastener group is coming from the lap splice, which is not designed to be a sealed condition. Water flowing down the face of the panel above returns around the bottom edge where the formed notch is encountered. The water stains show that most of the water that gets into the lap splice is directed to the bottom of the panels and escapes through the weep hole. However, at the top of the lap the panels are screwed together, held apart slightly by the applied aggregate. This narrow gap induces capillary attraction, actively drawing some of the water that gets into the lap up to the fasteners.” I sent the information gathered by the engineer to Decra, of course there was no response. We have (obviously) discontinued installing this product and would recommend that others do not install it either. The company will not stand behind their product. I would be happy to forward a complete copy of the engineers report to anyone who wants to see it.

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I couldn’t get the materials for what you’re asking to install it. Takes at least 3x longer to install than a shingle roof and that’s if you buy a Swanson shear and Decra’s metal break. Even $600sq sounds low to me.

Can you even be the third layer in your neck of the woods. ? That is not allowed in my location.

For the first 20 years we did Decra, they were all go overs. No so much anymore, its just a better install with a tear off. I would expect some loss of service life. How much would depend on your location. Provided the deck is in good condition I would have no issue going over one layer of comp, not two. If it were my house I would be tearing off all layers.