How "angry" are you really?

I’ve seen all the hubbub about “illegal immigrants taking our jobs!”
Then it hit me…how many of us here have used illegal immigrants or
hired someone without paying taxes for them?

How many of us here have patronized businesses that we suspect or that
we know employ illegal immigrants or that hire people that don’t pay taxes?

How many of us here are sooooooo angry,
that we would boycott a business with such practices?

Now, before any of you come here to rant and rave
about how illegals do this and illegals do that,
answer the questions I posted first, otherwise,
your silence will suggest that you have either used
illegals or have patronized businesses even though
you suspect or know they’ve hired illegals.

If that’s the case, you have no right to be so self-righteous.

If you want to be really real about your wrath at illegals,
then prove it…boycott those business that hire illegals.

I’m more angry with the employers who hire them than
those who come here to work to earn a better life.
The difference between an illegal immigrant today
and illegal immigrants during the 1900’s is?
There is no difference. Food for thought.
This is nothing new. Been going on for a century.

I’ll be first…without making excuses,
I have used illegals when I had my business.
I’ve paid guys off of the books.

I’ve patronized business I both suspected and knew that used illegals.
I can’t really boycott them because this is a sanctuary state
and I’d basically have to boycott just about every store.

I don’t do that anymore (the hiring part).
I only hire American citizens or those in the
process of acquiring their citizenship legally.

In my case, I just couldn’t find any better
roofers locally than illegals back then.

I guess you’re not going to ever play golf or eat fast food again huh? That’s just the tip of the iceberg. BTW, you can take the truck you’re driving and park it was well because I flat out guarantee you that illegals built at least some of the parts that go into that truck somewhere along the assembly process. I can take you into many automotive component assembly plants in the Midwest where you’d think you were in Juarez instead of the United States.

Oh, by the way, don’t drink that orange juice in the morning or eat any vegetables or fruit either. Chances are excellent that somewhere along the line, if not most of the way, an illegal was involved in planting, growing, harvesting, etc…

I would tell you if you’re going to boycott all businesses involved with illegals that you should just stay in bed tomorrow, but damn, chances are good illegals were involved somewhere along the line in manufacturing that bed. So that won’t work.

Our crew in Indiana is primarily Caucasian and that has worked well for us. We took them to Alabama over the winter to help us get started there. The plan was to have them put together a “white” crew to leave there. Big problem. After dozens upon dozens of failed attempts, couldn’t find more than 2 “white” roofers to stay on the job. Most either didn’t show up or left by noon.

We hired another “white” crew for a 70 square job on a beautiful home. Really nice job and honestly, the roof wasn’t very cut up and wasn’t that steep. It only took those clowns 12 days to complete the job. One of the days, despite being very cloudy and every weather forecast calling for rain, those idiots tore off way more than they could get shingled and ended up getting leaks inside. On top of that, they very badly damaged 3 areas of gutters and tore up a bunch of landscaping.

We’ve since tried to hire “white” crews for jobs. Been stood up twice where they flat out didn’t show up for the job on the day of.

Now even though we try our very best to give work to honest, hardworking US Citizens, you will never find a place on this site or anywhere else where I’ve complained about illegals. I don’t really care, they aren’t taking food off of my plate. Unfortunately, in Alabama, it’s reached a point where without them, we’d be in trouble.

It’s natural when things are tough to look for somewhere else to place the blame. IMHO though, the place to look in this case is our beautiful Federal Government and their spend crazy ways that have put us in this horrible recession. And their total inability or desire to protect our borders to start with. After that, you have Home and Business Owners who will hire illegals rather than pay a single penny more for a crew comprised of US Citizens.

But at the end of the day, many should just look in the mirror. There are way too many people who expect to get paid unreasonable wages for a minimal amount of shoddy work. I’m sure saying this won’t win me many friends here but it is statement of fact in way too many instances.

HOW DARE YOU!!! I get paid a reasonable amount for the shoddy work i do :!: JK!

Seriously though i totally agree. :mrgreen:

@ Authentic Dad…

All true.

I feel for Americans who are affected by their
(the illegals) being employed over them.

I believe that if they were made legal,
there’d be plenty of jobs for unemployed Americans FIRST,
then what ever was left over, we could fill in with those illegals
who have proven track records as good citizens and no criminal records.

But let’s face it, we need a good amount of them.
And, their cheap labor keep prices down in the market for goods and services,
but we then get burned when we have to provide services that they don’t pay into later.

It’s like this “Three Card Monty Show”.

I guarantee a ton of them would go back once legalized because no contractor is going to pay them the same money their paying now and when they realize that $400. a week after paying taxes is about $280. a week, their going to re-consider being here.

[quote=“rooferwill”]

HOW DARE YOU!!! I get paid a reasonable amount for the shoddy work i do :!: JK!

Seriously though i totally agree. :mrgreen:[/quote]

LOL

I am always humbled when someone says something about illegals and everyone (including those who arent ONE BIT racist or who never stereotype) always assume mexicans.

I’m Hispanic (Puerto Rican) and I have no problem with
people automatically jumping to that conclusion.

Of course up around my way, it’s the Polish and the Irish and the Russians and the Swedes. But Mexicans far outnumber them across the country, so I don’t automatically think “racism”.

Some people just have limited experiences.

We have never hired illegal aliens and despise those that do. There is nothing racist about wanting the laws enforced. Those that make there money exploiting and taking advantage of these people need to be exposed for the scum that they are. God bless Arizona !

Yep. Just about everybody has a reason for them to be here.

Politicians for votes.
Corporations for cost savings.
Americans for cheap products.
Contractors for cheap skilled labor.

And I agree 100% about the laws being enforced.

But not with the Arizona Law (which is identical all current laws on AZ’s books, but they just added racial profiling). Anyway, if they had already enforced the laws they had on the books, they wouldn’t need racial profiling.

I lived in Arizona.
All that screaming and yelling they are doing about illegals is a show;
I know from first hand experience.
They have illegals cleaning The Sheriff’s offices.
They allow illegals there like other states.
It’s a show in an election year.
You’ll see, they’ll quiet down after the elections.
And everything will go back to normal over there.

Look at John McCain. Way before the election?
McCain/Kennedy: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Ame … ration_Act

Now that he’s in trouble? He’s all about completing the “danged” fence.

I knew Mcain was a phoney. Thats why I couldnt vote for him.

Problem is we (somebody’s government) is paying the American not to work. Whether it be welfare, subsidies or unempolyment. The Americans simply think WTF Chuck, I’m getting a cell phone!

[quote=“2ndGen”]

Now, before any of you come here to rant and rave
about how illegals do this and illegals do that,
answer the questions I posted first, otherwise,
your silence will suggest
that you have either used
illegals or have patronized businesses even though
you suspect or know they’ve hired illegals.[/quote]

I was all good with the ideal of this post until you threw the manipulation out there… I never give in to manipulation. You lost your biggest fan with that remark.

[quote=“AaronB.”]

[quote=“2ndGen”]

Now, before any of you come here to rant and rave
about how illegals do this and illegals do that,
answer the questions I posted first, otherwise,
your silence will suggest
[/quote]

that you have either used
illegals or have patronized businesses even though
you suspect or know they’ve hired illegals.

I was all good with the ideal of this post until you threw the manipulation out there… I never give in to manipulation. You lost your biggest fan with that remark.[/quote]

It’s really very simple, either one has or hasn’t.
I’m sure there are those who complain about
illegals and use them at the same time.
No manipulation there…I just don’t like the hypocrisy.

That’s why I went first and “manned-up”.
It’s the same thing I say about those who complain
about politicians but don’t take the time to go vote.

Personally I don’t want to hear someone ranting about
illegals while they themselves have used them.

If you’ve noticed, this thread has gotten some extremely
candid responses and has struck an honest exchange (IMO).

:slight_smile:

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]I guess you’re not going to ever play golf or eat fast food again huh? That’s just the tip of the iceberg. BTW, you can take the truck you’re driving and park it was well because I flat out guarantee you that illegals built at least some of the parts that go into that truck somewhere along the assembly process. I can take you into many automotive component assembly plants in the Midwest where you’d think you were in Juarez instead of the United States.

Oh, by the way, don’t drink that orange juice in the morning or eat any vegetables or fruit either. Chances are excellent that somewhere along the line, if not most of the way, an illegal was involved in planting, growing, harvesting, etc…

I would tell you if you’re going to boycott all businesses involved with illegals that you should just stay in bed tomorrow, but damn, chances are good illegals were involved somewhere along the line in manufacturing that bed. So that won’t work.

Our crew in Indiana is primarily Caucasian and that has worked well for us. We took them to Alabama over the winter to help us get started there. The plan was to have them put together a “white” crew to leave there. Big problem. After dozens upon dozens of failed attempts, couldn’t find more than 2 “white” roofers to stay on the job. Most either didn’t show up or left by noon.

We hired another “white” crew for a 70 square job on a beautiful home. Really nice job and honestly, the roof wasn’t very cut up and wasn’t that steep. It only took those clowns 12 days to complete the job. One of the days, despite being very cloudy and every weather forecast calling for rain, those idiots tore off way more than they could get shingled and ended up getting leaks inside. On top of that, they very badly damaged 3 areas of gutters and tore up a bunch of landscaping.

We’ve since tried to hire “white” crews for jobs. Been stood up twice where they flat out didn’t show up for the job on the day of.

Now even though we try our very best to give work to honest, hardworking US Citizens, you will never find a place on this site or anywhere else where I’ve complained about illegals. I don’t really care, they aren’t taking food off of my plate. Unfortunately, in Alabama, it’s reached a point where without them, we’d be in trouble.

It’s natural when things are tough to look for somewhere else to place the blame. IMHO though, the place to look in this case is our beautiful Federal Government and their spend crazy ways that have put us in this horrible recession. And their total inability or desire to protect our borders to start with. After that, you have Home and Business Owners who will hire illegals rather than pay a single penny more for a crew comprised of US Citizens.

But at the end of the day, many should just look in the mirror. There are way too many people who expect to get paid unreasonable wages for a minimal amount of shoddy work. I’m sure saying this won’t win me many friends here but it is statement of fact in way too many instances.[/quote]

I knew you had an American crew. I didn’t know about Alabama. I liken your excuse to use illegals to a poor kid from the ghetto saying that selling drugs is the only way that he can support his family. Its illegal period. And to admit on a public forum that you are criminal that is involved in knowingly and systematically breaking the law is down right foolish.

In Louisiana we have been overun with them illegals and thier cheap labor,in 2002 we had hurricane LILLI and thats when it all changed.Now every construction site is all hispanic and most have Texas plates all parked on site.I know lots of American roofers who are loosing jobs to them and thier cheap labor these guys have roofed all thier lives and do good work,it will take a few years for the substandard roofing to catch up and people will realize they didnt get such a great deal.Craigslist is a great source for cheap illegal contractors to hawk thier wares.

[quote=“THE OUTLAW ROOFER”]

I knew you had an American crew. I didn’t know about Alabama. I liken your excuse to use illegals to a poor kid from the ghetto saying that selling drugs is the only way that he can support his family. Its illegal period. And to admit on a public forum that you are criminal that is involved in knowingly and systematically breaking the law is down right foolish.[/quote]

There’s a 2nd part to my question…how many of us have paid people off the books?

Have you OR? If you have, isn’t that illegal?

I’m not trying to get into it with you buddy,
but he was honest with his and I for one appreciate that.
I too was honest with mine.
In my case, the only available workers are illegals.
Americans here don’t want to work on roofs.
They don’t last a day.

Illegals have a different work ethic.
Sure, you have your hacks too and your bums,
but there are far more people in the United States
that are on welfare than there are illegals working.

What employer wouldn’t want to hire an American citizen for what he can get away with paying an illegal THAT actually performed as well?

It’s competition at it’s finest…literally the “American Way”.
Work hard and you get places here…even if you’re here illegally.

I’m all for open competition.
Guest worker program? Why not?
Everybody will win.

Right now, their sending all their income back to their countries anyway.
If we tax them, we’ll keep a good 25-30% of that money.
Being that their won’t be American citizens, they won’t be able
to take full advantage of the tax breaks the lower income wage earners’ get.

When I was in West Virginia, my crew was completely comprised of American Citizens.
Laziest bunch of “f’s” I ever had.

And, I put ads out. Got a ton of calls, guys telling me they were experienced,
ready to rock & roll, blah, blah, blah, but couldn’t even get them to show up.

One guy who actually did was actually slower with his gun than a laborer was with a hammer.

America is supposed to be about opportunity.
To the Natives, we took this country illegally
when we broke treaties and took it by force.
Our history is steeped in unfairness when it comes to immigration whether it
was to The Irish or to The Italians or to The Poles a century ago who came here illegally
or to the modern wave of immigrants who just happen to be of a different region.

Ultimately, if there was no need or opportunity here brother, they wouldn’t be here.

If we didn’t employ them or pay them or give them
sanctuary or licences, they wouldn’t be here.

We allow them to reside here and work here and to have their children here.

We just won’t give them all of their rights that they (by the sweat of their brow) have earned.

Their here. We let them in. Reagan gave the amnesty, Bush didn’t lift a finger when they began to migrate here in droves when times got really hard in the early 2000’s and now, we have a big mess.

What do we do?

Do we boycott businesses we know use illegals?
Do we report every business using them?
Do we deport 20 Million people leaving the largely
metropolitan areas and suburbs without a needed workforce?

I think this is a solution: “Sponsorship”
Employers who have good employees, who can prove that they need these
workers (illegals) and that can’t fill that position with Americans
should be allowed to sponsor their workers and be responsible for them.

That in my opinion would be fair.

In areas where it’s proven that illegals have displaced American citizens and where they have had a detrimental effect on the economy and where local unemployment is high, they should just be moved out of there. Deported? Not right away, we could be throwing away the baby with the bathwater and could be getting rid of some good people and disrupting the lives of their children who are American citizens and who have rights.

Maybe they could be relocated to areas that need them.

Definitely, the Military should be an open option to illegals.
Wanna come here? Give us 4 years of your life and put “it” on the line for us.
Then, open arms policy. Many are doing this now and are proven entities.
Plus, they’ll hit the ground running with an education and great training.
They won’t be a drain on our society.

You know, a person can always come up with a hundred excuses not to do the right thing. But, only one reason is needed for doing the right thing; because it is the right thing to do.

2nd Gen, did you come here legally? Does just anyone deserve the opportunities offered here in America? If their first act is to enter this country ILLEGALLY, how can a person assume that they will not continue to act inappropriately? My assumption is if you enter this country ILLEGALLY then you have no problem side stepping any of our laws. While we are at it, why don’t we overlook speeding, DUI, rape, murder drugs. Hell, lets just abolish all laws so we can have total anarchy.

This is America. Problems are resolved democratically. You can’t pick and choose which laws you will abide by, and if you do, you deserve to go to jail.

Have you ever done the wrong thing?
Have your ever used illegals?
Have you ever paid anybody “off the books”?
Do you do business with business who use illegal
labor or that you suspect use illegal labor?

If you found out they were using illegals,
would you boycott them in protest?

Wow. That’s a very ignorant question. You need an edumacation:

A) I was born in New York.

B) If I had been born in Puerto Rico, I’d still be born a United States Citizen

C) We’ve been Americans since 1917 and have spilled our blood contributed our most “precious resources” (our lives) for the freedom of The United States before we were even citizens.

D) We fought in the Revolutionary War and defeated the
British helping secure Florida for The United States.

E) As opposed to illegals who sneak in, the United States actually sent
airliners to import us into the country because they needed labor
(especially in Connecticut and in the North East).

F) During WWI, we were brought in for the war effort,
helping build ships and armaments and literally
fighting in every war since the birth of The United States.

I can go on and on, but maybe by now, you get the picture.
We were invited and welcomed in when the United States needed men to help defeat The Nazis and Japan especially.

Yes…if we use their labor and benefit from it.

Easy. We judge them by their actions. If they’ve led a productive life since they got here and haven’t been in trouble and we need their labor, we stop using them and give them their fair share, put them on the books, and turn them into tax paying citizens.

.

Well, you’re confusing the law with right and wrong here. Just because something is a law, that doesn’t automatically make it right.

Slavery was the law.
Jim Crow was the law.
Women Suffrage allowed was illegal.
Interracial marriage was illegal.
Abortion is legal.
Prostitution is legal.

If a person steals an apple to survive, that is not wrong.
It might be illegal, but it’s not wrong.
If a person steals an apple to sell it to buy liguor,
that is wrong.

There are no gray areas here.

Entering the country illegally is illegal, but is it wrong?

Well, while we’re at it, why don’t we get rid of all the illegals here (all non-Native Americans)?

Laws being right or wrong is relative.

Also, some of those things you listed are crimes.
Entering the country illegally is not a crime.
You’re mixing them up there as well.
American laws don’t apply to non-American nationals.

So what should we do with all those people who are complicit in supporting American establishments that use illegal labor?

Is what they do “wrong” and illegal too?

Are they guilty of a crime by their cooperation with a lawbreaking business who hires illegals?

Should we jail everybody who deals with businesses they know or suspect use illegals?

Check this out, according to the Arizona law, if someone gave their daughter and their daughter’s friend who was an illegal a ride to school, they’d be guilty of “human trafficking”.

“If” the law was applied as it’s said it’s supposed to (with zero tolerance), that person would go directly to jail.

Is that “right”?