Ins. Co. prices and OSHA

When can we expect the increase in prices that will follow the inevitable decrease in productivity and increase in costs, once the new Regs start getting 100% enforced?

Would it make sense to just wait until after June 26th (June 16th?) to do those jobs?

Assuming the pricing the contractors surveyed reflects this change, you will see it AFTER this data has been input and considered. So only if these contractors do in fact follow the OSHA guidelines and do in fact reflect the impact on their pricing will you see any increases. Unfortunately, from my understanding, the majority of the contractors surveyed are preferred vendors for the insurance companies so don’t hold your breath.

[quote=“Gus Jones”]When can we expect the increase in prices that will follow the inevitable decrease in productivity and increase in costs, once the new Regs start getting 100% enforced?

Would it make sense to just wait until after June 26th (June 16th?) to do those jobs?[/quote]

Unless I missed something, are you talking about GL ins increases as a result of OSHA’s Fall Protect “guidelines”?

Larry, he is talking about the pending new guidelines for fall protection requirements on residential roofs. Were roofers to follow these guidelines, they will clearly impact the productivity, thereby the cost, for residential roof replacements. So if I understood the question correctly, he’s wondering about the timing for when these productivity decreases will show up as price increases in Xactimate.

Correct AD. Productivity is going to drop… what 20%?

As a company and industry, in the long run, we should demand and see rate decreases ( :roll: ) for comp. Yeah right. 40 people died on residential roofs last year according to the OSHA propoganda machine. They don’t mention how many were or were not roofers. …

:doubt:

I doubt there will be any price increases, because they will just say “you should have been doing it that way all along!”

oh, and a competitor of mine was at a local supply house last week when I was there placing an order… he purchased the only 6 “buckets” of fall protection equipment they had on the shelf, and ordered like 5 or 6 more. (its a harness/rope/etc etc all in a 5 gallon bucket) and when asked “so i guess you are doing a steep one, huh?” he said “nope… we were doing two roofs in one neighborhood yesterday… both 5:12 basic gables, and OSHA showed up and wrote us fines for a total of $10,000”

ouch!

[quote=“Gus Jones”]Correct AD. Productivity is going to drop… what 20%?

As a company and industry, in the long run, we should demand and see rate decreases ( :roll: ) for comp. Yeah right. 40 people died on residential roofs last year according to the OSHA propoganda machine. They don’t mention how many were or were not roofers. …

:doubt:[/quote]

i bet 1/2 or more were homeowners putting up their own christmas lights.

“ANY” roof over 6’ high! We put the Fall protection, hard hats & safety glasses into affect this week. productivity has dropped by 50% moral has dropped 90%. And the topper…had a guy trip on ropes & fall from a 4/12 ranch today!!! harness did its job & protected him from hitting the ground, but it wouldnt have happened if he didnt have to wear it to start with!!! havent had a fall in 11 years…first week with the new “safety” rules…already 1 down! [size=150]AWESOME![/size]

That’s what happens when our government steps in to protect us!

I’m sure you don’t complain when one of your employees gets hurt and doesn’t sue you for negligence.
My personal production drops about 35% when I tie up, and I don’t get compensated for that by anyone.

1 roofer died in BC last year, 5 or 6 other trades men died while on a roof last year. Yet our rate is 11.72% and a plumber is only 2.26%, electricians are 1.71%.
In 2008, Worksafe BC (British Columbia version of WCB) denied 9000+ people compensation. They “claim” there is about a 20% fraud rate.
In 2008, 1 person was charged with defrauding Worksafe BC

How sure are you? I hope not too sure because you would be wrong.

You obviously took my post the wrong way. Were any of our employees to suffer an injury, I would be devastated. If I don’t respect them and value them, they’re not an employee. Based on your comment, you’d be totally shocked if you only knew the truth.

The point I intended is simple. When government gets involved, there’s a far greater chance they will screw it up than improve it. I see this no differently than how they treat other situations. The OSHA inspector drives along and sees the solid company that makes most common sense efforts to do things right and being the typical moronic bureaucrat he likely is, he pulls over and writes them up for something stupid and fines them $10,000. And they pay it.

The same bureaucrat drives down the street, sees a bunch of hilljacks or an illegal crew on the roof with many gross violations and he drives on knowing it would be a waste of his time to attempt to do anything. Or, he pulls over, writes them up and issues a fine. These guys clear the site, ignore the fine and appear two weeks later operating under a different company name or even in a different state. They still use the same unsafe practices, they still sell their services at sub par rates, they provide crappy work, they don’t pay taxes, have GL or WC. So they’re still taking work from the solid guy who did get fined and paid it. Further, they’re still causing the rates in the area to go down.

Now, the solid company is observing the safety rules to avoid further fines, they’re productivity goes down which obviously affects their profit margins. So they have to raise their rates causing them to lose more business to the dipsticks who are now operating under a new name. So this good company ends up making less money and pays less taxes into the same corrupt, inept government who doesn’t care because they’ll just borrow another trillion and put us further in debt.

This is a whole lot closer to reality than this idealistic view our government apparently has that by simply making the rules stiffer, they will benefit everyone. Unfortunately, the morons failed to consider the big picture and enact measures in other peripheral areas that could have an overall positive impact on most everyone involved. So yeah, more of those roofers working for the good company don’t die from a fall, they simply die a slow death from starvation since they have no work, therefore having no money to purchase food for them and their families.

You think this isn’t the way it really is bcdemon? If that’s the case, drive on down to the states and sit in on a county or city court someday. Watch the prosecutor and judge rake some guy over the coals for blowing a .09 two weeks ago after he stopped off after work and had 3 beers. Watch them treat him like a serial killer when aside from being .01 over the limit, this is a very solid, hard working tax paying citizen.

Now wait ten minutes and watch some low life gang banger go in front of the judge with 6 counts of illegal drug use, assault and battery and who knows what else. Watch the judge’s eyes gloss over, give this scumbag the standard speech, tell him what dire consequences he faces if this happens one more time, issues a few citations and sends him on his way. Then follow the guy outside and watch him laughing with his buddies while he tears the citations in pieces and tosses them to the ground.

This is reality dude. And to a reasonable degree, the crap they’re doing with the regulations and with OSHA enforcing it aren’t a whole lot different.

And no, I’m not the guy that had the .09. Fortunately, I’ve never had a DUI. But I have been in court a few times for speeding tickets and watched very, very similar scenarios to what I just describe transpire. It happens countless times every day.

I’ll bet if you lived in the US, you would have voted for Obama.

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]

I’m sure you don’t complain when one of your employees gets hurt and doesn’t sue you for negligence.

You obviously took my post the wrong way.[/quote]

I wasn’t saying you wouldn’t be emotionally hurt in any way.
In fact, I was referring more to WCB than OSHA, due to a misunderstanding of your OSHA and WCB system.
We have our own Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety, but they don’t drive around and hand out fines, our provincial WCB does that. The CCOHS makes recommendations, WCB makes laws and enforces them.

P.S. Our justice system isn’t much better. In fact they actually had to deliberate whether or not to let a guy who 3 years ago killed his 3 kids out of the mental ward for daily outings to the pool and Tim Hortons.

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]

You think this isn’t the way it really is bcdemon? If that’s the case, drive on down to the states and sit in on a county or city court someday. Watch the prosecutor and judge rake some guy over the coals for blowing a .09 two weeks ago after he stopped off after work and had 3 beers. Watch them treat him like a serial killer when aside from being .01 over the limit, this is a very solid, hard working tax paying citizen.

Now wait ten minutes and watch some low life gang banger go in front of the judge with 6 counts of illegal drug use, assault and battery and who knows what else. Watch the judge’s eyes gloss over, give this scumbag the standard speech, tell him what dire consequences he faces if this happens one more time, issues a few citations and sends him on his way. Then follow the guy outside and watch him laughing with his buddies while he tears the citations in pieces and tosses them to the ground.

And no, I’m not the guy that had the .09. Fortunately, I’ve never had a DUI. But I have been in court a few times for speeding tickets and watched very, very similar scenarios to what I just describe transpire. It happens countless times every day.

I’ll bet if you lived in the US, you would have voted for Obama.[/quote]

I have snipped some parts of AD’s post for brevity. And a lot of what he said reguarding enforcement of laws by the Govt I agree with.

However, I must ask 2 questions-

How many folks do you know personally who have been injured or killed in a “gang” related crime?

And how many folks do you know who have been injured or killed by a “non-gang” drunk driver?

Personally, I know literally dozens of folks who have been victims of selfish jerks who get boozed up and drive. I dont know anyone who has been shot by “gangsters”. Does it happen? Of course it does and I would like to see them all locked up.

But the reality is, you have an much higher chance of being the victim of a drunk driver than a gang banger.

alcoholalert.com/drunk-drivi … stics.html

Check the numbers, its insane that we dont do more to stop it. :doubt:

Pete, in case my post led to confusion, I am not an advocate by any means for drunk driving. But I also believe think that pendulum has swung a bit too far but that is another conversation altogether. In the case of my post, it was just a hypothetical example.

It isn’t about safety, it’s about theft. The bloated, government pig will steal from it’s subjects any way it can. The really stupid part about it is we let them. If you think about it, the only ones who get screwed by the government are the legitimate contractors. They have no authority over the illegals because they haven’t voluntarily submitted to their jurisdiction. Progressives want amnesty so they have more “citizens” to steal from. Has nothing to do with fairness to them.

If I understood his post correctly, I believe that was kinda what Dad was getting at.

[quote=“dstew66”]It isn’t about safety, it’s about theft. The bloated, government pig will steal from it’s subjects any way it can. The really stupid part about it is we let them. If you think about it, the only ones who get screwed by the government are the legitimate contractors. The have no authority over the illegals because they haven’t voluntarily submitted to their jurisdiction. Progressives want amnesty so they have more “citizens” to steal from. Has nothing to do with fairness to them.

If I understood his post correctly, I believe that was kinda what Dad was getting at.[/quote]

dstew, thanks for the translation. :smiley:

It sure is refreshing to see reasonable, coherent responses to any post involving government or politics on the net.

Thanks AD and dstew, there may just be hope yet! :smiley:

The Obama administration increased the funding for OSHA. There is a local office that has 40 complience officers. There job is to drive around and write you a ticket, trust me they can and will always find somthing. Its all about money and picking your poket out of whatever little profit you may have. After all your big bad bussiness. Its only going to get worse if people in this country dont wake up.

If’n I may: The Republicants are calling for $ cuts to teachers, public works workers and spending on infrastructure.
I HAVE NOT HEARD A WORD FROM THAT GROUP OF PICKLED AND JARRED SLIME ABOUT CUTTING REGULATIONS. NOT ONE!

In fact, I have not heard of one Pro American action by those deadbeats in 20 yrs. or more.

The 97%ers in this country just can’t wrap their heads around this:
Obama is a Republicant and the Republicants are Obamas. And the Democraps are Bush and Bush is a Democrap. It is IN OUR FACES EVERYDAY, and yet we deny
.
Now everyone will come out wanting to split hairs on this, but I will tell you that “influencing legislation”, or whatever baloney we think we can do, does not work. It is way past time to tear down the walls to the fortress and re-build.

Don’t dare mistake me for a republicrat . I didnt vote for Liberal Mcain or Osama.