Is the "sign allowance" legal in Texas?

I am getting alot of conflicting information.

A vast majority of the roofers advertise this but it seems like a homeowner receiving a rebate is not legal (i.e. a betterment for your loss)

Is there a way this can be done while remaining legal?

I believe a read where it can be legal if the sign is placed in a yard they are not roofing. How is this any different than your yard?

How do roofers handle paying for a part of or all of a deductible without sending a false invoice?

This should be good:)

Is this a common argument? or just a bad question?

[quote=“dadcjd”]

Is this a common argument? or just a bad question?[/quote]

Little of both. Do a search for “insurance fraud” on this forum.

Of course, this is an excellent (and timely) question for this forum, given all the storm chasing going on these days.

I’ll start the answer to your question, but I have two early appointments today.

First, the homeowner must pay their deductible.

Second, a business owner has the freedom to pay for legitimate services, i.e. advertising.

I do not feel that the yard sign generates any business, so I will personally not accept an advertising payment from the homeowner for putting my sign in their yard.

Instead, I feel that the sign is really a homeowner benefit, as defense against endless storm chasers hounding the homeowner after a storm. I even had a homeowner ask if he could borrow a sign to keep roofers from knocking on his door.

Others may be able to document that there is value in a yard sign that makes them feel comfortable in accepting advertising value for a homeowner payment.

It seems to be a common practice for homeowners and roofers to trade advertising or other items of value - rather than trade checks.

[quote=“Gary”]

I do not feel that the yard sign generates any business.[/quote]

Then you need to redesign your yard signs.

Mine are my #3 source of leads, and as many as I get… thats pretty damn good.

1 Like

[quote=“Agape”]

[quote=“Gary”]

I do not feel that the yard sign generates any business.[/quote]

Then you need to redesign your yard signs.

Mine are my #3 source of leads, and as many as I get… thats pretty damn good.[/quote]

Sorry, but you are wrong. My signs are not a problem. I’d more attribute it to a difference in the psychographics of the area where we work.

In my area, it is considered tacky to put out signs, and I see it the same way. Now that we cleared that up lol, yard signs may very well be legal, but I am not so sure that using them to cover the deductible is really legal. I do not know of anyone who has been prosecuted or anyone who has ruled that they are legal, though.

In OKC area I have heard of the reduction for sign placement but signs don’t last very long here.They are removed pretty quick depending where you are.Most of these yard signs are from people spiking the neighborhoods. Most that are under contract,the signs are really close to the house.I don’t offer any fraud possible perks.And in Springfield,Mo (home office)I always have mine stolen(yard signs) I had 5 stolen on one street.,sucks at $55 a pop(metal) so I switched to those plastic ones,so when they steal them they have to steal more.

Psychographics? Is that a word?

Yes, it is demographics for psychotics. :wink:

So i was a little confused with the question at hand at first but i believe gary answered it pretty well. If they wanna place signs in your yard and give you a discount then thats their deal and i dont see how it can be illegal. Ill put it this way, you dont need a license or insurance to be a roofer in texas so why would anything involving advertising be?

secondly heres the definition for psychographics:

plural noun [treated as sing. ]
the study and classification of people according to their attitudes, aspirations, and other psychological criteria, esp. in market research.

[quote=“Gatesroofing”]So i was a little confused with the question at hand at first but i believe gary answered it pretty well. If they wanna place signs in your yard and give you a discount then thats their deal and i dont see how it can be illegal. Ill put it this way, you dont need a license or insurance to be a roofer in texas so why would anything involving advertising be?

secondly heres the definition for psychographics:

plural noun [treated as sing. ]
the study and classification of people according to their attitudes, aspirations, and other psychological criteria, esp. in market research.[/quote]

Texas roofing licenses come at the local level, as I recall. To get a required permit, you have to get a license from the city. However, there are several posts on this site that cite the stringent Texas state laws. Having read those posts, I would not use a little fifteen day yard sign as payment for a 1% deductible. That seems pretty flimsy to me.

You are right, though, that it is really a personal call whether you think the yard sign gives you value that you could back up in court if they decided to come after you. I pray that that doesn’t happen. Careful record keeping is a must. That is why Jason and I do not concur on this. My records show that I never got one call off of a yard sign. So, I would not use that as an advertising payment to my company. If I could subpoena person after person who would write to me that they will absolutely testify that they bought a roof from me for that reason, I would use it. Court is the ultimate bummer, and I advise every person here to be totally 100% prepared for it. Believe me, it doesn’t go like you think. If someone does not testify for you, then it is called hearsay. That is why I say that they must testify. Enough rambling, you get my drift…

From the insurance companies perspective, having a contractor cover a deductable has no impact on the amount of the claim that will be paid.

Either way, the insurance company pays the claim less deductable. So if I am running an insurance company, my main concern for investigations would be to stop outright fraudulent claims(mechanical damage, etc). That and be sure the policyholder gets the repair work done correctly.

Of course, the insurance company also gets the last laugh since they KNOW the contractor is making less than they should.

Its a very strange game.

[quote]

I agree but most roofers don’t realize that with the proper approach you can get 400-450 per sq,rather than the usual 230-250 per sq.Those of you that do this understand where I am coming from.Prior to coming to OKC I was happy with a 45-53% profit margin but now I know how to increase it to 58-60%.And it is legal and the insurance companies WILL pay that if you know how to get it.[/quote]

i must be confused about the question at hand.

So are companies down there offering to pay the insurance deductible to get homeowners to make a claim? and what does this have to do with signs? the thread poster was a little vague but it is an interesting topic.

My personal opinion on yard sings is this, they are cheap so why not? marketing is all about imbedding your image into the consumers heads. hence why radio ads always repeat their number like 10 times! annoying for sure but have you ever caught your self singing their little jingle? My current marketing strategy is door flyers and if i get some jobs i will definitely be placing yard signs in front! haha

Marc

We see this sign credit all the time from “contractors” using the term loosely, they exchange the placement of the yard sign in exchange for the deductible.
I do not give away any deductible in exchange for a yard sign. When the homeowner signed the contract for his or her insurance policy they agreed to pay a “deductible” if they had a loss.
Now that a loss was incurred they want the contractor to pay it? This does not make sense at all. Will the homeowner pay my deductible if I incur a loss I don’t think so but you can always ask.I do.

[quote=“PeteW”]From the insurance companies perspective, having a contractor cover a deductable has no impact on the amount of the claim that will be paid.

Either way, the insurance company pays the claim less deductable. So if I am running an insurance company, my main concern for investigations would be to stop outright fraudulent claims(mechanical damage, etc). That and be sure the policyholder gets the repair work done correctly.

Of course, the insurance company also gets the last laugh since they KNOW the contractor is making less than they should.

Its a very strange game.[/quote]

I have a different opinion on this.

First, it is a world of difference to insurance companies whether deductibles are “covered” or not. I would guess that the majority of claims would not be called in if the homeowners all knew that they would absolutely have to pay that deductible with no provision to work that off.

Second, the insurers do not get involved in the quality of the work, per se. They disclose this on the scope of work that the homeowner must select the contractor. The insurers do not have the time and money to get in the middle of whether the roofer did every little detail right. Can you imagine what their customer satisfaction department would be facing if they did not get away from that can of worms? We can’t even agree on what work is best - lol.

Third, I get really tired of how Xactimate cheats us. That is pure BS. You win some, and you lose some. Xactimate is allegedly the average of the price of work in the area. So, if we continue to mollycoddle the scumbags who “bid” insurance jobs, then we are our own worst enemies.

However, I do agree that insurers cannot support fraudulent scams to steal money from them.

I don’t know if anyone heard that State Farm is floating huge rate increases coming. I heard that one area has been informed that they will get 30% rate increases next year. That was in an area with no storms either.

I think we all need to constantly look ourselves square in the mirror.

Old post so quick answer since I don’t know if this will be viewed now. and this is a Texas point of view.

  1. It is against Texas law for a insured to receive a betterment from there loss. By covering their deductable they are saving money thus receiving a betterment. However there is a way around that and it requires the homeowner paying you there deductable and then you paying them for the advertising discount. Also your tax records will have to show that you 1099 them for the amount.

  2. Secondly by covering the deductable you have changed the scope of the loss. You have now done the job cheaper then what the insurance estimated.The Insurance can now pay the cheaper price. Because of this they can now reduce the actual amount it cost to do the job based on your invoice and then deduct the deductable out again. Where do you feel this? In the depreciation check. How do you get around that? you send an invoice to the insurance company saying the insured paid you in full including the deductable! Oh wait, Thats insurance fraud. Good luck with that the insurance companies are cracking down