Is this Standing Seam valley done incorrectly?

Roofing/Construction Questions
#1

I just got an expensive standing seam metal roof installed (24 gauge galvalume with Kynar paint). After watching some installation videos online from expert installers, I noticed that my valley details are different. The installers inserted the panel pieces straight into what seems like a receiving channel installed on top of the valley pan.

What I’ve seen online is that the standing seam panels get bent over at the end and then tucked into an offset cleat, similar to what is done at the eaves line, where the panels are hemmed and locked into the drip edge profile.

I poured some water onto a panel that’s interlocked with the valley and observed the following: Some of it spilled over into the trough (as it should), some ran down the inside of the channel and collected at the eaves, where drip edge, valley and channel piece all come together. Notably, some water ran under the hem of two panels and dripped into the gutter approx two panel widths (32 inches) away from the valley center.

It doesn’t seem right to me, and I cannot find a single schematic on the web advertising this design. Am I well advised to ask the roofer to redo these valleys? I am afraid that water will flow under the panels and gather in places where it shouldn’t. In the long run, this cannot be good, right?
The rest of the installation is actually quite proper from what I can tell. I am nervous as this was a big money investment. I informed the roofer and am waiting for a reply. They’ve been really good throughout the process, so I hope they will be responsive to this concern.

Any advise is much appreciated!

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#2

No it is not.

We just covered this here a couple weeks ago, you should have a look at this thread:

#3

Yeah, that not right and an awful idea. Where are these guys getting the idea to install in such a way?

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#4

I would guess it’s a labor saving shortcut

#5

Oh yeah, i 100% agree that is what it is too. Just find it odd that 2 different posters had the exact same lazy install detail in such a short period of time.

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#6

I really dont think it saves much time either. Still have to cut the panel at the proper angle,how much longer would it take to run it 3/4" long and fold it. Seems like the same amount of skill and work.
This is crazy, I can’t imagine spending all that time doing a SS roof and doing this nonsense.

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#7

Thank you all for your feedback. It now is clear to me that this is wrong and needs redone. I have notified the installer, and they said they would meet with me to discuss.
I have to say that the installers certainly did not rush. I doubt this was done to save time. Just a wrong design. Odd indeed as the head installer otherwise was very knowledgeable and did a good job in other areas.

I hope they will agree to redo it properly. They have been upstanding people to deal with, so my hopes are high. I have ice and water shield below those areas, so will most likely not have a leak until this gets fixed.

#8

Seams like there is a dyslexic doing detail drawings for standing seam roofs…an “engineer” named Teesla maybe?

5 Likes
#9

As an installer doing it this way would save me massive time.

2 Likes
#10

When the California valley came out they were kind of rare and then all of a sudden all the shortcutters were on board.

Same thing will happen here, over time as more new people enter the trade this inferior shortcut will eventually be accepted as an “alternate method”.

#11

The installer came out and understood my points about the valley well. He’s learned the traditional method (offset cleat + hemmed panels) but then, as he said, switched to this method as that was what this company uses. He called it a “system.” He said he would talk to the company owner to discuss this. This was Friday, and I haven’t heard back from them. Might have to give them some more time to respond.

Regardless, I have every confidence in the installer to do it the right way. However, I need to figure out with the company’s owner what to do. And maybe you can give me some additional tips here.

I now understand clearly that this is an improper valley design. I talked to a technical director of a large roofing supply company (who also have an excellent youtube channel). This person told me that his chief concern would be edge creep and premature rusting with the method I have - Basically, a bare edge constantly exposed to entrapped dirt and moisture inside the J channel.

I also browsed a variety of installation instructions from various panel makers and standing seam system distributors. As you might have guessed, none of them endorse the method I have.

#12

I would like to know what a piece of this valley looks like without the panels installed. I would like to know which metal company makes your system. I’m my mind, it just doesn’t make any sense. I agree it’s a quick clean look and I love to learn better methods, but this one just appears to be ignorant.

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#13

Hi Rooferama,
I forwarded the link to this thread to my roofer as I told him about the responses I got on here.

From what I understood this is a self-designed system, not made or endorsed by a specific manufacturer. As a waterproofing system it might actually work (it has a water deflecting lip above the groove on which the panels sit), but concerns about dirt and moisture accumulation in the J channels remained very strong for me. It is essentially a maintenance item.

We had a good conversation, and they agreed to redo the valleys to the prevailing industry standards (cleat + hemmed panel). This is a reputable company, and I am glad that they are making it right. There are four valleys, so this will be a bit of work for sure.

Thanks to all who have chimed in. This helped me build up my knowledge.

2 Likes
#14

“Water, unobstructed, seeks it’s own level”. That system is an obstruction and will cause problems…

#15

After six weeks of no response, the company finally got back to me. They now ask me to pay them $6000 to replace the valleys. This was very different from the conversation we’ve had.
Seems like they changed their tune and now expect me to be financially responsible for the redo.

I am attaching a copy of their drawing (valley detail). This shows the current design I have which I’d like to replace with the industry-standard hemmed panel + cleat.

I also quote from their written response to me:

The reason we use this type of detail for a standing seam panel with striations will crease and dent when bent over one-hundred fifty degrees. This condition is not cosmetically appealing to the eye when there are dents on both sides of the valley. The trade off with both types of valley detail being functional. I understand your perspective that there may be edge creep. A condition where the paint may start to deteriorate at the cut edge of pre-finished coil steel. We have not had any failures complaints from the W-valley cleat roof detail or seen any edge creep or rusting in the roofs we have replaced from hail since started using this detail.

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I am not happy with their response, and I am certainly not willing to pay them $6,000 to cure the issues on a new $31,000 roof.

What should be my next steps? Do I have legal recourse if they won’t be swayed by my arguments? I am beyond frustrated. What’s your take?

Thank you for any help you may provide!

#16

Not sure if there are any warranties or industry standard specs that have to be followed with SS metal. I do mainly flat roofs now, and any time I need to change specs I get ahold of my tech rep. If I decide to do it “my way” and it fails, I am solely responsible. Not sure if my insurance has an “ignorance and arrogance” clause. Did you get a manufacturers warranty on the metal? Only thing I can think of is to fill the void with a self-leveling terpolymer.

#17

Metal roof warranties typically only cover paint unless a ‘weather tight’ or equivalent warranty is purchased with obscene specs and costs. They do not assume warranties for systems or do anything other than offer suggestions for applications, at least in our region.

#18

You said they installed a 24 gauge metal panel. Why is the valley detail showing 26 gauge flashing?

#19

I don’t know why it says 26 gauge. I would hope they installed 24 gauge valleys.

#20

Seems that at raw cut edge staying wet 24/7 will rust quick.