I've asked for 20% O&P and Insurance is offering 10%

I don’t know what to do next, any help would be appreciated. I have a claim that I had a PA friend of mine rewrite. The scope of loss is the same as the original scope from the insurance appointed adjuster. The only difference is pricing.

O&P was not included in the original scope. I had O&P added to the rewrite plus I updated pricing with a newer price list from Xactimate.

Repairs include:

-roof
-gutters
-ac comb
-paint and seal soffits
-window screens and glazing

I submitted the re-write before any work was performed but the insurance company did not approve it. They reluctantly offer 5% overhead and 5% profit and that’s it. I recorded the conversation and transcribed it so I’ll include it at the bottom.

Here are my questions:

1.) Am I justified in asking for 20% O&P when I’ve farmed all the work out to multiple subs?
2.) Am I justified in adjusting the pricing up based on a newer xactimate price list?
3.) What tactics can I employ to get the rewrite approved?

The original scope: $7450.50
My rewrite: $9894.88
Difference: $2444.38

Phone transcript

Desk adjuster: How can I help you?
me: Ya I’ve got a claim here, I’m a contractor on one of your claims.
Desk adjuster: Alondra XXXXX?
me: Yes, and uh we submitted a supplement, we rewrote it to add a couple of things to it and submitted it to you for your approval. And my estimator Regan XXXXX was called on Friday but it’s really me that you need to talk to. Were there questions about what I submitted?
Desk adjuster: Um, I think our scope is the same so I’m not sure why the pricing is off. And uh you’re wanting overhead and profit. I really don’t think the claim has the complexity to warrant overhead and profit at all but um I did get approval to offer you 5% overhead and 5% profit.
me: 5% where do you get that?
Desk adjuster: Um, that’s just what we offer, I mean…that’s kind of being generous, I don’t think it’s warranted at all.
me: Well it’s pretty industry standard stuff, 10% overhead and 10% profit when there’s multiple services.
Desk adjuster: Well, it’s based on the complexity of the claim, there’s not a whole lot of coordination going on in the claim. So based on the complexity of the claim, you know, no regards to trades just the complexity of the claim it’s not really warranted. However, I did get approval to offer you 5% for overhead and 5% for profit.
me: Ok, and then as far as the pricing, so what did your scope come out to be when you included that?
Desk adjuster: Um, (inaudible) lets see…so our final cost is (inaudible) $7450.50 I can give you 5% for overhead and 5% for profit.
me: Ok, so you didn’t approve the 25 year shingle?
Desk adjuster: No, 20 year shingles are available. They’re no longer manufactured but you can still purchase them.
me: Ok well our suppliers don’t carry…
Desk adjuster: The policy won’t allow for the upgraded shingle
me: Our suppliers don’t use or don’t sell the 20 year shingle, um.
Desk adjuster: There are suppliers that do.
me: K well, then I’m going to submit this to TDI and see what they have to say about it. Um…
Desk adjuster: Go ahead
me: I think what I’ve asked for is pretty fair. 10% overhead and profit, I sent you the bulletin on it, it was back in 1998 that they established that overhead and profit…
Desk adjuster: Right but nowhere does TDI say what that amount should be. So it’s negotiable, I offered 5 and 5.
me: Ok, well I want 10 and 10.
Desk adjuster: Ok, maybe this isn’t the job for you. I don’t know but I’ve already made my offer.
me: Alright well um, I’ll write the complaint then and we will just settle it with TDI.
Desk adjuster: Ok, thank you.

whats your gripe ? sounds like your just a paper roofer anyway so any profit should be good. you subbed out all the work.
you guys are whats wrong with the roofing industry .

Did you say your scope was exactly the same as the adjuster’s?

Wow. I could have a field-day with this one…

First off, I see you are in Texas (TDI reference). Let’s begin with the simple fact that you are violating Texas law by negotiating this claim with the insurer. Plain and simple. Cut and dry (“tactics can I employ”). Statutory violation with criminal penalties.

Second, as someone has already pointed out, it appears you are not a real roofing company but just a middleman trying to make a few bucks on the insurance claims process (“farmed all the work”). Again, you are violating Texas law. Go get your public adjuster license and be honest about what you are doing.

Third, there is no entitlement to general contractor overhead and profit on this claim. A real roofing contractor would generally perform this small and simple project with a single bid incorporating all work. His own reasonable “overhead and profit” would be included in his bid (estimate) price. The fact that the insurer is giving you anything for o&p on top of the cost to repair is a gift.

I could go on, but I have a meeting with an insured and his real roofer–one that owns mops and buckets!

Mops and buckets?

This just keeps getting weirder and weirder.
Maybe I am mistaken because I am a newbie, but this is highly entertaining. It’s probably not my place at all, and take my words with a grain of salt, being both new as well as only a salesman, but I can’t help myself, it’s too much!

A narrative:

First, the scene opens with a desperate plea for help. We have this roofing company whose idea of a supplement consists of simply multiplying the insurance adjuster’s estimate by 1.2, made all the more hilarious by the fact that there are two people working on this claim, the “estimator” and the “contractor,” both of whom couldn’t be bothered to measure the roof nor anything else on that property.

And so it comes to pass that they wander into the lion’s den completely unawares that “the scope of loss is the same” will no doubt sound to the adjuster much like “we didn’t measure crap” which will also no doubt sound very similar to “we have no idea what we’re doing.” A very bad thing for dynamic duo, since while contractors can’t act like lawyers, adjusters will tend to listen to them out of sheer intimidation of their experience and knowledge.

Apparently, all these two thought they had to do to secure victory was continually repeat the same phrase over and over, until the dastardly adjuster succumbed to their iron-clad logic of tautology. When this fails, their subsequent threats to tell TDI of the adjuster’s actions are, to their grave disappointment, met with the adjuster’s approval.

The self-styled contractor then chooses to send the adjuster a document from 1998, expecting this file to land a crushing blow. But upon finding that documents do not inspire the much-hoped-for terror, they switch back to an earlier used tactic in a last act of desperation: threating to report the adjuster’s cruelty to the TDI.

This reaches a comedic climax as the perplexed “contractor” attempts to subdue the unruly adjuster by yelling “Ni! Ni!”, or “TDI! TDI!”

Unsure of how it was that the adjuster did not explode into flames upon hearing the magical incantation, the self-appointed contractor retreats in shame to the internet, where he no doubt originated, and proceeds to ask several questions yet missing the critical one that would most likely aid him through-out his endeavors: how is a roof measured and constructed?

Not content to leave our tingling desire for more nonsense unsatisfied, the gods of comedy sought fit to bestow us with a hilarious epilogue, so that we may continue in laughter, in which IP completely misreads the situation and proceeds to accuse the bumbling roofing duo of a slew of legal infidelities. The zany spirit is kept alive as he brings wild and hysterical accusations upon the contractor’s head, such as his being a contractor caught in negotiations, which is apparently illegal, as well as involving himself in the business of contracting in general, which is also apparently illegal, and of not doing all of the work himself without contracting anyone, which is apparently what it is that a legitimate contractor does. After rebuking the shamed roofer, IP then proclaims his merry departure off to rendezvous with his dearly beloved insured left in his charge as well as the chosen roofers he has brought them, roofers who are both legitimate and true, as evidenced by the well known and symbolic tools of the roofing trade, a mop and a bucket.

I hope a sequel is made.

I’ll tell you whats funny is that Novice doesn’t know what a mop and bucket is used for in roofing :shock:

I just looked it up. I didn’t dub myself A Novice for nothing! Told you to take what I say with a grain of salt.

Never dealt with the tar roofs before, although I’ve been on ‘em. Didn’t know the terminology. You learn somethin’ new everyday!

Did you record the conversion with the adjuster knowledge and consent? My guess is no. So you are already likely breaking the law.
O&P is always negotiable.
If your scope with the adjuster is the same, then why have your friend write the estimate for you. There are services that are a lot cheaper then hiring your PA friend. Maybe he “adjusted” the prices to make is commission higher.
You are no longer a roofer if you “farm” out any trade. Congratulation you have graduated to a GC. Is there any license requirements in Texas that you don’t have but should?
Your contract is with the homeowner. If you don’t think the homeowner will pay the O&P why should the insurance company? I believe in Texas a contractor can no longer negotiate a claim. Let the homeowner know this, and have them hire a PA or attorney if need be. Your moral compass needs re-calibrated. I guessing you will refer them to your PA friend which would only prove my point.

[quote=“budreau”]whats your gripe ? sounds like your just a paper roofer anyway so any profit should be good. you subbed out all the work.
you guys are whats wrong with the roofing industry .[/quote]

Please explain.

That’s what I said. O&P and a few line item adjustments based on an updated xactimate price list.

[quote=“InsurerPerspective”]Wow. I could have a field-day with this one…

First off, I see you are in Texas (TDI reference). Let’s begin with the simple fact that you are violating Texas law by negotiating this claim with the insurer. Plain and simple. Cut and dry (“tactics can I employ”). Statutory violation with criminal penalties.

Second, as someone has already pointed out, it appears you are not a real roofing company but just a middleman trying to make a few bucks on the insurance claims process (“farmed all the work”). Again, you are violating Texas law. Go get your public adjuster license and be honest about what you are doing.

Third, there is no entitlement to general contractor overhead and profit on this claim. A real roofing contractor would generally perform this small and simple project with a single bid incorporating all work. His own reasonable “overhead and profit” would be included in his bid (estimate) price. The fact that the insurer is giving you anything for o&p on top of the cost to repair is a gift.

I could go on, but I have a meeting with an insured and his real roofer–one that owns mops and buckets![/quote]

First: IP - I do appreciate your input, I certainly don’t want to break any laws. It’s just so damn hard not to these days. Here’s a good read on the subject. “You Commit Three Felonies a Day” wsj By L. GORDON CROVITZ
This reminds me of a Bible verse John 8:7

Second: I started down the path of getting my PA licence but TDI seems to think I have a criminal past I didn’t disclose in my application. Something about the FBI having my fingerprints on file. I think I’ll stick to the repair side of the business.

Third: Yes, I am new at this as you ALL have so painfully pointed out. I worked as a salesman for a roofing company until last September when the owner suddenly died at the age of 43. Now I’m on my own. Apparently, I don’t know what I don’t know.

Again, I do appreciate your input albeit condescending.

[quote=“roof pitch”]Did you record the conversion with the adjuster knowledge and consent? My guess is no. So you are already likely breaking the law.
Good question: I don’t believe I am. I have a reference url but the forum won’t let me post it.
O&P is always negotiable. I see
If your scope with the adjuster is the same, then why have your friend write the estimate for you. There are services that are a lot cheaper then hiring your PA friend. Maybe he “adjusted” the prices to make is commission higher. He is a certified xactimate estimator, he charged me $100. He is not acting as the PA on the job, just rewrote the estimate for me.
You are no longer a roofer if you “farm” out any trade. Congratulation you have graduated to a GC. Is there any license requirements in Texas that you don’t have but should? Yes, I am acting as the GC for this claim. Anything wrong with acting as a GC? No I don’t believe I am required to have a GC licence here in Texas. I had a reference url but I can’t post it.

Your contract is with the homeowner. If you don’t think the homeowner will pay the O&P why should the insurance company? Why do you assume the homeowner isn’t willing to pay O&P? The homeowners first check was around $1700 after depreciation and her deductible. She thought she had to pay the rest and was willing to do so. I for one think it’s ridiculous that the state doesn’t allow the contractor to negotiate a claim. I have yet to find a homeowner that understands the claim process. I’ve acted as the GC on several projects now and still have a huge knowledge gap. How can anyone expect the homeowner to effectively negotiate a claim. I see a huge conflict of interest when an insurance company contracts out adjusters to estimate a claim. I believe in Texas a contractor can no longer negotiate a claim. Apparently so, again I think this is unreasonable. Let the homeowner know this, and have them hire a PA or attorney if need be. It’s only $2444, I don’t think it’s worth hiring a PA or attorney. What do you think?Your moral compass needs re-calibrated. Really??? I guessing you will refer them to your PA friend which would only prove my point.[/quote]

What point is that? Thank you for your input.

explain paper roofer - ok . how many sqs can you lay per day hand nailing ? or with gun ? sling a mop all day . etc .
lots of “roofers” these days are nothing but a bunch of computer toting , polo wearing , xactimate subscribing salesmen that spend all day offering "advertising rebates " on a roof job and then off to the office to call the adjuster that didn’t give enough money for the roof job you just discounted by $1000 for advertising fees aka eating the deductible then call in the subs to go actually roof the house then you show up the day after to collect the money . aka - paper roofer

[quote=“budreau”]explain paper roofer - ok . how many sqs can you lay per day hand nailing ? or with gun ? sling a mop all day . etc .
lots of “roofers” these days are nothing but a bunch of computer toting , polo wearing , xactimate subscribing salesmen that spend all day offering "advertising rebates " on a roof job and then off to the office to call the adjuster that didn’t give enough money for the roof job you just discounted by $1000 for advertising fees aka eating the deductible then call in the subs to go actually roof the house then you show up the day after to collect the money . aka - paper roofer[/quote]

I’m comfortable with being a paper roofer, yes I wear a polo shirt almost every day :slight_smile: I only get my hands dirty when I absolutely have to. I’m glad you take pride in doing the labor yourself but why are you so angry? I only eat the deductible when the choice is between getting the work and making something or loosing it and make nothing. In that case it’s usually a homeowner that wont let me see the insurance paperwork and asks me for a bid. I’m not “eating” the deductible, I’m giving a blind bid. Is there something wrong with the way I do business? I have seen business cards that advertise “no deductible” so I understand your frustration in that regard. How much do you charge a sq for labor?

Are you working the Amarillo storm? How’s it going up their in the panhandle?

Either you know its legal for you to secretly tape a phone conversation or you don’t. Don’t play dumb. Even if it was legal would you tell the other person? Moral compass #1
There is no problem acting as a GC if you are a GC. Does this really need any further explanation? My state there is a test that a person would need to take to become one, have you done that? Are you listed in your city directly as a roofer, salesman or GC. Moral compass #2.
I never assumed if the homeowner was not willing to pay your O&P or not. I could care less. Why do you want the insurance company to pay it when you are invoicing the homeowner? Doesn’t make any sense to me. Its not up to you or me to decide if the homeowner wants to hire a PA or attorney its the homeowner decision and theirs only.
I have never seen a scope that was the same be that far apart on such a low dollar amount unless the numbers were “adjusted”. Moral compass #3.

I don’t want to be judge you or the way you are doing business. Just answering your questions. Maybe moral compass wasn’t the correct term. Ethical might be better.

Well, I’m sorry that your former boss passed. As well as being condescending. But struck me as odd that the supplement seemed to include only things found on the internet, and nothing from the actual property in question. Like you were trying to start your own roofing company based on stuff you’d read off the internet without actually joining one first.

I’m pretty new to this whole industry as well. But I work underneath someone. As for you, what is your situation now? Did you inherent your boss’s company or something? Where did you get your company from, and where are the funds coming from to finance you? You don’t have to be specific, just wondering why you don’t try to join a different company? You make it seem like your boss passed away and left you selling roofs on a deserted island (with hail damaged, fully insured homes).

Have you been selling any roofs since September? How have those deals worked out?

Can you get on a roof? I don’t know how old you are or what your situation is physically.

Really, if you’re telling the truth, I’m baffled; you seem clueless. How have you been doing this since September and not gone completely broke yet?

[quote=“A Novice”]Well, I’m sorry that your former boss passed. As well as being condescending. But struck me as odd that the supplement seemed to include only things found on the internet, and nothing from the actual property in question. Like you were trying to start your own roofing company based on stuff you’d read off the internet without actually joining one first.

I’m pretty new to this whole industry as well. But I work underneath someone. As for you, what is your situation now? Did you inherent your boss’s company or something? Where did you get your company from, and where are the funds coming from to finance you? You don’t have to be specific, just wondering why you don’t try to join a different company? You make it seem like your boss passed away and left you selling roofs on a deserted island (with hail damaged, fully insured homes).

Have you been selling any roofs since September? How have those deals worked out?

Can you get on a roof? I don’t know how old you are or what your situation is physically.

Really, if you’re telling the truth, I’m baffled; you seem clueless. How have you been doing this since September and not gone completely broke yet?[/quote]

Really, clueless? Seems a little harsh. You can’t expect me to know everything from day one.

No, I didn’t inherit my bosses business. There really wasn’t anything to take over. Sure he set up some lead generation but those contacts all died with him. I’m acting as a sole proprietor, no llc or corporation. I set up an llc in the past only to find they are a burden if you really don’t need them. In my experience you only need that type of entity if you have assets you want to protect, and I don’t.

My first client was a referral from a satisfied customer I worked with under my former employers company. That one referral gave me 5 rent houses to re-roof so I guess you can say I got lucky. He then went on to give me another referral that went on the first week of January. Even though I lack experience my customers have all been very satisfied with the work I’ve done. In December I did a claim that was just shy of 17K. I made around 8K off it so from the start I’ve been doing ok. Cash flow has been a problem but it’s been manageable. I have a 14K credit limit on one of my credit cards so I use that as capital and pay it down once the jobs are fully paid. I also require the first check up front so that usually takes care of roofing material and labor.

I’m 33, have a background in sales and I have a 2 yr degree in ‘welding engineering technology’ oddly enough. The hardest part of this business, as in any business, as been marketing. I’m in good health. I’ve been living off referrals and occasionally I do some door to door sales. I can easily get on 4 or 5 roofs a day if I go door to door. I treat my subs very well so whenever they get a lead while doing a roof they usually call me. Since August 2012 I’ve put on around 25 roofs. Maybe 12 of those have been on my own.

I’m amazed by how inconsistent the insurance industry is. Internal policy varies widely from carrier to carrier and even more so adjuster to adjuster. Allstate has been the biggest headache. I’ve had several signed contracts with Allstate customers to only get the claim denied or they only pay for repair that comes in below the deductible. What really get me is when every house in a neighborhood gets totaled by various carriers except Allstate customers. It’s almost comical to drive though a neighborhood a month after a major hailstorm, it’s easy to spot the homes that are insured with Allstate. The new Allstate matrix for a totaled roof is 12+ hits per square on every slope or it’s a repair (according to adjuster from pilot). I asked the adjuster where he got 12+ hits, he told me TDI sets the standard. I later called TDI an confirmed that he either lied or just didn’t know. It’s internal policy that sets Allstate’s matrix, NOT TDI. Anyway I could go on and on.

Anyway, I’ve just run into a small snag with this current carrier and I thought I could get a little better pricing by having my friend rewrite it for me. I’ve got an earful from the adjuster side of the argument (yes I know, I’m just another idiot wannabe contractor trying to use insurance as an ATM) but I have yet to see any helpful advice from the contractor point of view. Anyone want to point me in the right direction?

[quote=“melvenac”]

[quote=“budreau”]explain paper roofer - ok . how many sqs can you lay per day hand nailing ? or with gun ? sling a mop all day . etc .
lots of “roofers” these days are nothing but a bunch of computer toting , polo wearing , xactimate subscribing salesmen that spend all day offering "advertising rebates " on a roof job and then off to the office to call the adjuster that didn’t give enough money for the roof job you just discounted by $1000 for advertising fees aka eating the deductible then call in the subs to go actually roof the house then you show up the day after to collect the money . aka - paper roofer[/quote]

I’m comfortable with being a paper roofer, yes I wear a polo shirt almost every day :slight_smile: I only get my hands dirty when I absolutely have to. I’m glad you take pride in doing the labor yourself but why are you so angry? I only eat the deductible when the choice is between getting the work and making something or loosing it and make nothing. In that case it’s usually a homeowner that wont let me see the insurance paperwork and asks me for a bid. I’m not “eating” the deductible, I’m giving a blind bid. Is there something wrong with the way I do business? I have seen business cards that advertise “no deductible” so I understand your frustration in that regard. How much do you charge a sq for labor?

Are you working the Amarillo storm? How’s it going up their in the panhandle?[/quote]

why am I so angry ? because of people like you that think there is nothing wrong with eating deductibles .
if you new anything about roofing you would not have to discount anything . you would be able to discuss the subject and answer any questions the homeowner has sell the quality of your work not your low price …

[quote=“budreau”]
why am I so angry ? because of people like you that think there is nothing wrong with eating deductibles .
if you new anything about roofing you would not have to discount anything . you would be able to discuss the subject and answer any questions the homeowner has sell the quality of your work not your low price …[/quote]

Do trolls drink beer? Through a few back and cool down!

[quote=“melvenac”]
Do trolls drink beer? Through a few back and cool down![/quote]

Ooooooo… that’s not a good idea…

That’s part of the “cluelessness” I was talking about.

There is a great deal of controversy over the payment of deductibles, and it isn’t just a profit issue. You also have the legal issues involved, for one matter.

Another thing is the idea that if no one ever got their deductible waived/payed, then cost wouldn’t be an issue; therefore, it would be a very level playing field, the people who got the jobs would be the people who could convince the homeowner that they were the best at what they could they do.

I kind of view that situation as hopeless, almost like prohibition in the 20s, it’s just not gonna happen, but for roofers who actually do the work, and have been doing the work for years, and take great pride in their work, it’s not hard to see why they would feel so strongly about it. You know, when you’ve done something for years and become excellent at it, but then you find out that it turns out everyone wants “FREEroofsNOW!” instead, well… if you can understand that, budreau isn’t being a troll.

It’s probably the number one motivation to stop paying deductibles, for salesmen or roofers.

The fact that I have to say that makes me think you are somewhat “clueless”, no offense, to the business, and it seems that you’ve just taken what you’ve learned from your boss and ran with it, to your success, which is great.

Edit: But it’s not the only way people do things.

As far as how to increase profits, there is this product: burcos.com/profitmax.htm

I believe it’s a course on how the insurance process works, and how to get your O&P and supplements approved. I haven’t purchased it, so I don’t know if it’s worth it or not, but I was considering purchasing it.

Then I also wonder if you’re measuring these roofs or not. If you are simply going with the insurance estimates, you are getting screwed.

First, the insurance estimates as far as shingles go usually run about two squares short in my experience; that’s 6 more bundles the insurance owes money for in order to restore their customer’s roof. You ought to measure everything, including drip edge. You also ought to count anything on the roof as well, such as satellite dishes, electrical boots, any 3-in-1 flashing, TX vents, any vents and/or their flashing for that matter, and so on.

Anything that they forgot but is necessary for the restoration, throw it on there: dump truck fee, steep fees (I forgot, but I think they start at 7/12 to 8/12, and everything 9/12 and above is a double steep, which they give you even more money for), double-layers, flashing, fascia damage (if hail damaged, the entire side should be paid for; ex: all fascia on west elevation), fences (paint and repair and replace), garage doors, siding, paint, supply delivery fees, r-panel garages, metal car ports (customers will usually want to ACV these, declining to replace and receive RCV, so if these are damaged, there is usually no need to worry about deductibles since they will receive at least a couple thousand in their pocket anyways), windows, window beading, window screens, window solar screens (more expensive), measure everything, take pictures of everything, record everything, be honest, do not lie, and all of that is more money that the insurance owes. Not only will it make you look like a much more legitimate contractor to the adjuster instead of someone who just asks for a 20 percent jacked up insurance estimate, but when you get O&P, all that extra stuff that you would’ve left out had you not checked gets an extra 20% as well, pure profit for you.

These items can be Xactimated, or for more accurate pricing, there are other systems out there which will give you an better total, more accurate to your location, but I don’t know enough about them.

From what I have read on this forum, in no way are you ripping off the insurance by adding this stuff in, they promised it under their contract with the homeowner, and have prepared for it, in that their insurance has charged their customers a premium that gives the insurance a profit that even when under usual risk conditions the HO would restore their home completely using every available resource to the maximum and choosing the best quality. The insurance actually rips off the HO if you don’t maximize the claim.

[quote=“roof pitch”]Either you know its legal for you to secretly tape a phone conversation or you don’t. Don’t play dumb. I’m not “playing dumb”. You posed a good question so I looked it up. In the state of Texas only one person needs to give consent to legally record a conversation. That’s what I believed when I recorded it. Have you ever called a business and heard “This call may be monitored or recorded for quality assurance.” Notice how they don’t ask for your consent to record the conversation? That’s because only one party needs to give consent to legally record a conversation. Having said that I’m not an attorney so I could be wrong. The article I found on the subject listed only 12 states that require agreement by both parties to be legally recorded. Texas was not listed. Please be careful with the words you use “play dumb”. I do not talk down to you because I recognize you have a right to your opinion, further you may help me further my understanding in my new venture. Even if it was legal would you tell the other person? Moral compass #1 Of course I wouldn’t tell them, if they are caught lying I could use it in a court of law as evidence of bad faith. I don’t see that as being immoral or unethical in the least.
There is no problem acting as a GC if you are a GC. Does this really need any further explanation? No, I’ve address the issue in another post. My state there is a test that a person would need to take to become one, have you done that? No, as I understand the law, it’s not required in the state of Texas. Are you listed in your city directly as a roofer, salesman or GC. Moral compass #2. No, I’ve been in business a short time. I am not aware of any official directory I need to be listed in. I’ll look into it.
I never assumed if the homeowner was not willing to pay your O&P or not. Then why did you bring it up? I couldn’t care less. Why do you want the insurance company to pay it when you are invoicing the homeowner? Good insight. Doesn’t make any sense to me. I’ve always submitted the paperwork to the insurance company after work has been completed, not to the homeowners. It’s seemed to work just fine. Should I do it differently? It’s not up to you or me to decide if the homeowner wants to hire a PA or attorney its the homeowner decision and theirs only. I agree. But most homeowners don’t know what an adjuster is let alone a public adjuster. I think far too many homeowners ‘trust’ that their carrier will always do the right thing in every situation. We can’t assume adjusters are 100% infallible, moral, ethical or not persuaded in anyway by the carrier they legally represent.
I have never seen a scope that was the same be that far apart on such a low dollar amount unless the numbers were “adjusted”. Moral compass #3. The majority of it is 20% O&P. In my original post I asked the community if I am ‘justified’ in 20% o&p on this type of claim. Is it not clear that I want to do what is ethical? I did not rant or complain as some have alleged. I am seeking further understanding. I also made it clear that I had my friend who is a certified xactimate estimator and PA to “adjust” the numbers based on updated pricing. They used an outdated price list. Is it unethical to ask for updated pricing based on material inflation? That is a real cost of repair. I did ask them to pay on a 25 year shingles and not a 20 year shingle due to limited availability in her area. All but one manufacture in Texas has discontinued 20 yr shingles. Homedepot and Lowes don’t even carrier 20 yr so if 20 yr is not readily available shouldn’t insurance pay on 25 yr. to replace ‘like and kind’?

I don’t want to be judge you or the way you are doing business. Just answering your questions. Maybe moral compass wasn’t the correct term. Ethical might be better.So from an adjuster point of view it is unethical to ask for o&p on this claim? If that is true why would a desk adjuster offer anything if I am completely off my rocker?[/quote]

[quote=“A Novice”]

[quote=“melvenac”]
Do trolls drink beer? Through a few back and cool down![/quote]

Ooooooo… that’s not a good idea…

That’s part of the “cluelessness” I was talking about.

There is a great deal of controversy over the payment of deductibles, and it isn’t just a profit issue. You also have the legal issues involved, for one matter.

Another thing is the idea that if no one ever got their deductible waived/payed, then cost wouldn’t be an issue; therefore, it would be a very level playing field, the people who got the jobs would be the people who could convince the homeowner that they were the best at what they could they do.

I kind of view that situation as hopeless, almost like prohibition in the 20s, it’s just not gonna happen, but for roofers who actually do the work, and have been doing the work for years, and take great pride in their work, it’s not hard to see why they would feel so strongly about it. You know, when you’ve done something for years and become excellent at it, but then you find out that it turns out everyone wants “FREEroofsNOW!” instead, well… if you can understand that, budreau isn’t being a troll.

It’s probably the number one motivation to stop paying deductibles, for salesmen or roofers.

The fact that I have to say that makes me think you are somewhat “clueless”, no offense, to the business, and it seems that you’ve just taken what you’ve learned from your boss and ran with it, What are you talking about? Why do you assume I waive my customers deductibles? This topic does not belong in this thread. If you and budreau want to talk about deductibles go start a new thread :slight_smile: to your success, which is great.
Edit: But it’s not the only way people do things.[/quote]

No, budreau is a troll. Where in any of my posts have I ever mentioned waiving deductibles? In his mind I am a “paper roofer”. And according to budreau ALL “paper roofer” are the same and ALL “paper roofers” waive their customers deductibles. Where the hell did he even come up with that topic? I’ll tell you, he pulled it out of a darkened orifice. He doesn’t know me, he jumped to a conclusion and brought up an erroneous topic (that I waive my customers deductibles) that does not relate to anything in my original post. By definition he IS A TROLL! :twisted:

In case anyone needs the definition: In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]

That is exactly what he did. budreau = troll

BTW I agree that waiving a customers deductible is illegal, unethical and immoral.