Need help with Roof Tile overhang, Gutter/Gaurds, Contractor telling me all was done right! Please Help!

Just had a new Roof put on & I have several issues. I have stated from the start to contractor that gutters/guards need to be working at 100% due to topography of area and Oak trees debris. Tested every G/guard and found modified b/nose that worked very well. Went with Owen Corning Duration roof tile & my gutters are 5". I have told the contractor that per specs tile overhang with drip Edge needs to be 1/4" to 3/4" max. He is stating that it was done right due to the drip line, yest, it sticks out aprox 1.5" and is blocking 2 water channels on the new Gutter Guards! There is also some shoddy looking work in some areas, I have included pictures of what I could as it is a very high roof. Also, they installed these “Rain Diverters” that are a disaster! It rained yesterday and water was POURING off from both sides of every one of these installed! After 10+ years w/ the previous roof and similar gutter guards w/ no "diverters water has NEVER poured off of my roof in these areas like it just did, even during tropical storms, torrential rain storms, etc, yet I was just told, no roof would have have acted any different. Which was a total lie. We had to get large garage cans and put them under the gutters to catch all the water as it was going right to the foundation. Any advise and help as to how I should deal with this would be greatly appreciated! I also firmly believe the Tile over hang for my location is a big problem and would really like to hear others professional opinions? what would be the correct way to fix the tile overhang? and if you see any other issues in the photos? Thank you so much for any and all help, it is GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!









Do you have detailed images of the prior roof as it seems, other than age, it performed flawlessly and should serve as a visual benchmark for us to make an exhaustive comparison. With reference to the water flow, have you considered the modified granule alignment on the new shingles and whether this may contribute to the reduced flow friction when compared to your old roof?

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Hi, I will try and post some photo of the prior roof. it had the same type of tile, meaning it was architectural shingles. Didn’t have any issues with it as it was only 15 yr old, but there was a freak hail storm by us which has never happened and the large hail did cause granular loss. So after inspection, the ins paid to replace it. Comparing these new tiles to the previous “old” ones, Granules feel seems very similar. The rear main deck seems to be handling the water flow well even thou the guards are 1/4 covered by the 1.5" tile overhand on them. The fronts are a disaster due to those “water spat divertors” being used. I have never seen so much water shooting from both sides of those. Other parts of front of roof was performing very good. I found a few photos of previous roof and gutter and shingle length, there was no drip line prior. Thanks for your help! (this is only allowing 1 photo per reply, so I may need to do seperate replies for the photos)

2nd

3rd

4th

5th photo


… Thanks

That is a terrible gutter guard and I’m surprised any water gets into it. You are exaggerating somewhat saying he overhung the shingles 1 1/2” when your tape shows 1 1/4” with you bending it in a direction to bolster your claim. Roofers ‘knuckle’ their drip edge and that makes it between 3/4” and 1” typically. We also have to deal with wavy fascia and make sure our courses stay straight without giving up that slight overhang we need in the middle somewhere. In my opinion your gutter guard is the problem, and please quit calling your shingles tile.

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Hi, I can assure you I did not bend the tape measure at all and it is straight up. I did nothing to it at all except took the photo. You probably thinking I took it at an angle so that it looks more then it is, etc. I even did not go further down the shingles were it was showing slightly higher then 1.5". I took the photo with the tape straight onto the highest point of the drip edge sticking out to make sure. Well, it really depends on where you live and what your trying to keep out as far as gutter guards. I tested (5) dif designs and they were all either bad to very bad, think one was “decent’. The modified bull nose design was able to take as much water I could feed it with all sorts of tree debris on it, so it won by a landslide. So are you saying that this roofer followed the manufacturer guidelines of 1/4"to 3/4” from drip line Shingle Overhang? Btw, the drip line is sticking out 1/4". Thx

Is this an overlay? It appears to be based on the picture with the tape measure. If so the roofer mirrored the previous starter course.

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The only problem i see with the roof
Is the right bottom corner edge that is stcking up for some reason
And its got something to do with the gutter.
Easily corrected.

Doesnt look like you replaced your gutters.
Just added gutter guards and valley splash guards.
I would have advised you not to spend money installing gutter guards on an old 5 inch gutter.

Here in florida you would have had 2 inches more of that gutter-guard real-estate.
Why? Because the gutter machine gives you 6 inches as the standard.
And we dont over hang our shingles past the eve-drip
Our eve drip already has a 5/8 over-hang
And it is sandwiched with roofing cement/tar above.

I know you dont like seeing that water splashing both sides of the valley guards
But it is doing its job of breaking up the water and keeping it from shooting a Heavy stream down the valley and straight past/over the gutter when raining hard.

The previous gutter guard was more advanced.
“Gutter helmet”
It has its disadvantages but its drainage is surprisingly good.
It gets dented pretty easily by falling debris/limbs.
It is more difficult to replace the roofing because the gutter helmet has to be partially un-installed to replace the eve-drip metal.

.

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No, It is a clean Install, previous roof was completely taken off down to the plywood.

HI, I like the FL rules on shingle overhang. The issue is the company I used Brags they are a “platinum” something or the other for Owens Corning and yet it specifically states on the tech directions to go 1/4" to 3/4" w/ drip edge and NO MORE then 1/2" to 1" w/out it. I called Owens Corning Tech line and they were very specific that the specs for Shingle over hang must be adhered to or if there is an issue with that part of the roof down the line, they can deny warranty based on improper installation. Now, after spending $15K++ on this roof , I can not accept that even if it’s a “minor” possibility of happening! As far as the gutter helmet design, everyone else seems to knock it but it can handle a bunch of water but gets bogged down by all the Oak Tree debris we have here in the Spring time. After testing 5-6 diff Guards out there, I found the modified gutter helmet to work the best and superior to a regular one , it has 6 rows of water channels on the top with holes/slow down channels. This also allowed debris to sit on top and NOT effect it at all. I ran insane amounts of water(simulated roof conditions with all of them) through it to try and get it to spill over and 99% of the time it handled all water flow. That is with all 6 channels uncovered of course because why the heck would you want to cover any of them as they work in unison to slow the water down and fall into the top holes prior to going into the bull nose end openings. The manufacturer of all these guards know what the shingle spec guides are and had mine been followed 1/4 to 3/4" the guards would be fully functional/tops not covered at all. On the Valley guards, they are a disaster! I had NO water streams coming off of the roof ever even on down pours prior to this install, now with these valley guards there are two heavy streams of water coming from the left and right side of each valley guard on each and every single one of them (all 6) once moderate rain is falling. So, I went from 12+ years of this never an issue and my front foundation always DRY but now with these diverters/valley Guards, complete water streams shooting from both sides of these things? What should I do? Remove them? And what process is required to trim back the entire roof shingle overhang to correct to the proper specs? Want to make sure it would be done correctly? Does cutting the ends of the shingle and starter shingle compromise the shingle at all? Thanks for all your help, its VERY much appreciated!

Gutter helmet and copy cat systems have been added to my list of growing Addendums on the back of the contract that we will try to protect but will not be held responsible for scratching. YES!! scratching. I’m running out of room on the back of the contract of all the details that pop up with an ever changing world and we’ve reduced the font so small to make room for all of them, that it’s hard to see.

easily scratched?
Yes, ive experienced that to.
Most of them have been brown and i have been able to touch them up with Rustoleum leather brown.

You really cant put a ladder against it either.
Not for the crew.
Its more gentle than the gutter.
We nail a small piece of OSB at the bottom for the ladder to lean against.

Uninstalling gutter helmet and re-installing is a real task. Most people just cant do it.
Its very time consuming and tedious.
I admit my crew probably couldnt or wouldnt want to do it.
I did them all personally.
We are also breaking the rules and codes by doing it because we are intertwining it under the shingle.
No inspector has given me trouble yet about this but they could.

The overhang is too much but that is fairly common due to uneven fascia and some roofers tend to always use a large overhang.

Gutters are designed to accept a certain amount of water flow based on the top being open. While your roof isn’t that large 5 inch gutters are barely big enough if you do not have anything reducing flow. And ALL gutter guards reduce flow. That style will reduce it more than many others even if it still does a good job of still flowing while debris is present. You would also need a fire hydrant to even come close to simulating the amount of water your roof gets in a downpour.

I am unclear from your posts but it sounds like you had this style of gutter guards installed with the new roof. Did you previously have the same gutter guards and the water problem is new? If so the added overhang reducing flow may contribute to your problem, but the real cause is the gutter not being able to take in water fast enough. Clean and clear 5" gutters with no guard will overflow in bad storms sometimes, having a gutter guard at all makes that more likely, an excessive overhang would only make the problem slightly worse, and reducing the overhand would not prevent the overflow in hard enough storms.

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Hi,
Thanks for the reply. The big issue is that the previous roof had the same type of
“gutter helmet style” as the new gutter guards and no matter how hard it rained, there was no water flying off of my roof where the small valleys meet the gutters. So I am scratching my head as to what the heck has changed? The only “real” thing I see is the shingle overhangs? but can that really make this much of a difference? I have been out there many times over the years in the pouring rain for one thing or another to check that the gutters are working properly as it’s key with the topography of the area and so that water does not get down to the foundation. Never has water been “pouring” from these valley areas and it’s driving me nuts. Something has changed and I am not sure how to fix this? Roofer who installed it has not been helpful, stated no matter what I would have this but I know from 10+ years I never had this prior! The “diverters” they put just made the water pour from both sides of them. I know it’s not the diverters fault as they are on the outside lips of gutter. I need to find a way to stop this water from pouring off of my roof from the “valley” areas. Also, not having any gutter guard is not a real option as we have too many trees around so they are 100% needed to keep all the crap out. Any suggestions? Thanks again!!

If you have the same gutters and gutter guard that is certainly a head scratcher. Your best bet if the water is coming from the sides of the diverters would be to increase the diverter length in each corner. That would be cheapest and simplest way to try to fix the issue, IMO.

Yes, HUGE head Scratcher that needs to be solved. The roofing company has agreed to cut back the Shingles and to “glue” them down to the same edge as the drip line with that Roofing tar? that may be good but it will suck, if I need to ever take out one of the gutter guards as I will have to cut through the black stuff and then re-apply it once gutter is put back on. Is this really necessary if the shingle is cut all the way back? they stated this is the only way the manufactured will ok it and not void warranty?? They stated w/ the shingles cut back it “should” help? I am not sure if it will or won’t at this point? what do you think? the thing the diverters are now gone as they took them off(It’s on me as I should have told them to leave them with me but I was so out of my mind that I never thought
GUTTER


roof valley
to have them leave them here once they removed then, so shame on me!). If you look at the top photos of the thread you can see that the way the front roof line is built, even if the diverters were still there and made longer , it would just fall of to the Left and right as the gutter stop shortly left & right after where they were and when they were there, water was pouring from both sides of them. Now , with them off, the water is pouring straight down in one area but at the same amount from what I observed. I am attaching a before and after of the guards on with the old shingles and old shingle over hangs and then the new shingles and overhang. Let me know what you see with this and your overall thought? thanks so much for any help , ideas with all this! much appreciated!

If you
Have to replace a piece, it will be ok.
You wont have to cut through the tar.

Underlayment
Evedrip
Tar
Starter strip
Gutter guard
Shingle.

But doing it like this You wont have true wind up-lift protection here against cat 3 hurricane.
Because bottom shingle wont have its own tar strip to stick to.
But if you are not in that region,
Dont even worry about it.