Please help fellow roofer

I go out on a roof inspection the other day for a refinance and I pull up in the driveway and the first thing I see are massive hail hits to the plumbing vent caps. It looks like a group of drunk,angry teenagers had a party with baseball bats on the roof. I tell the homeowner to file a claim. To me, this is a slam dunk. I never even get off the ladder. I see baseball sized hail hits everywhere. Even the gutters have dents and in one spot the gutter bracket/nail was bent and knocked off. I explain to the homeowner that I didn’t want to walk on the roof and cause more damage because the shakes are clearly battered and split and I did not want the adjuster accusing me of causing the damages.

Homeowner calls in the claim and I hand it over to one of my salesmen. Adjuster runs late to the appointment and salesman is now tied up in another meeting. I am finishing up another roof and unable to make it either. Of course, homeowner tells adjusters that roofers didn’t even get on the roof. Adjuster walks on the roof and circles a few hail hits and splits. He notices all the splits happen at where the shakes are stapled so by his reasoning splits are due to roof being improperly stapled. He does actually acknowledge a few of the shakes that have fallen and buys a half dozen or so for wind damage.

He buys all the gutters. He buys all the plumbing vent caps. He even buys a two car garage door because of all the hail hits. Of course, he pays to repair the AC fins. He even buys some house paint. He doesn’t buy the roof! I am in a state of disbelief.

We call up the desk adjuster to ask why acknowledging all the Ancillary damage but not damage to the roof? Her response is that falling rocks could have caused the other damage as far as she knows. WTF? We ask her to repeat herself. She does. Flying rocks from lawn mowing and kids playing could have dented the garage door and AC condensers. We explain to her that there’s no rocks to be found. Concrete driveway and nice manicured lawn. No rocks. Plus it’s real hard to get the plumbing caps with rocks. She said she will send out the same inspector today.

It gets better. The homeowner has since been notified that his insurance rates have nearly doubled since he filed this one and only(first) claim. Their execuse was that his wood shake roof was grandfathered in under the lower rates. Those rates no longer apply and he must now fix all damages to the roof! I can’t make it up!!!

It is no secret that this insurance company is leaving Oklahoma. Too many hail claims and they have raised rates across the board. Hint: It’s the one with a free towing service for members and has three letter name. I have my commercial and private auto insurance with these guys. My agent/friend the other day informed me that he wanted my homeowners insurance but had to run it through another company because this one wasn’t writing new policies.

What do I do with my meeting today? The storm happened in April so it is hard to see all the hits. If you find a split, you can normally look close enough and find a hail hit. What kind of damage under the shakes does baseball/occasional softball size hail do? Does the loosening of the shake give me any claim?

I also find it curious the adjuster didn’t notice wooden pool deck and patio and privacy fences? Advice please?

The first question that needs to be asked is why didn’t you and/or your sales rep make it an absolute priority to be there when the Adjuster showed up? If you’ve done this more than once or twice, you (1) Know the Adjusters are early or late more often than they’re on time; and (2) Meeting with the Adjuster is of the utmost importance. Given this is a shake roof, it is probably a fairly lucrative job if approved, estimated and handled correctly.

I also don’t buy the BS about not wanting to inspect the roof for fear of causing mechanical damage. If the shakes are going to split from you inspecting the roof, it’s hard to argue they haven’t split from any number of reasons other than hail. Besides that, if you had started to inspect the roof and found that you were causing mechanical damage, you could have stopped at that point. Instead, you made an “assumption” without having valid data to support it. That’s a nice way of saying you took the lazy way out.

Sorry Dude, I’m sure you wanted to hear about some silver bullet to cure the issues you’re facing and someone to corroborate with you on how awful that insurance company is behaving. IMHO however, I can’t get to either of those because I think you screwed the pooch in a big way and let this HO down in a big way.

Dad,

I can’t argue my laziness point. I screwed up. I could have marked out a 10 x 10 grid and circled a bunch of hits and splits. My fault. I was heading home and had a salesman to work this claim.

However, you know as well as I that a roofing company owner can’t be in two places at once. When adjusters don’t keep to their schedules(I believe on purpose at times) it screws up my whole day. My coverage area is just too large to have 2 simultaneous meetings.

On a related note, in an ideal world the homeowner should get the same deal whether I am there or not! As you know, we don’t live in an ideal world. I had another homeowner insist that I not attend the meeting with the adjuster last week. She informed me that she worked in an attorney’s office that specializes in insurance litigation and she could better negotiate than I. I relented and let her have her way. They paid her $50 per square less on their summary of loss than the other two claims from this company I was working. In fact, they paid her less per square for 30 year on this job than what they paid for 20 year on one of my others. I am not talking about ACV and depreciation either. They paid her $25 per square RCV to remove and replace flat roofing on a 6 square section of her roof. I had to later explain to her that I couldn’t even buy modified bitumen for $25 per square! They paid her $47 to paint and sheetrock repair her dining room and kitchen.

I get how important it is to be with the adjuster.

It happens. At least you get the job no matter if it’s the O or the Ins. that pays. You total the roof, give a price and the HO argues with the INS for reimbursement.

I guess my biggest question regarding the whole thing is how are you still in business?

You don’t need to make excuses to me, you can explain it to the HO. We provide the HO with a document explaining what is to be done after the claim is called in. It emphasizes they need to inform the Adjuster that they (1) REQUIRE their contractor be present before any inspection is to be done; and (2) They expect the Adjuster to show up +/- 30 minutes of their appointed time or call and reschedule. The document also emphasizes the need to get the Adjuster’s name and cell phone number. That way, if the Adjuster is running late, they can be called on their cell phone.

Of course you can’t be two places at once. However, you can be prepared and competent at handling insurance claims which includes understanding how to put in contingencies and be prepared for the exact situation you described. If you allow it, this will happen frequently. If you set Customer expectations, anticipate, prepare and set contingencies in place, you can all but eliminate this kind of crap.

It really sounds like from your stories that you spend most of your time having Customers and Adjusters telling you how things will be done with you whining about the results and consequences later. I’d say you either need to call the waaaaambulance or get your act together and take charge.

The learning process sucks butt.When you let the homeowner try to prove they are more competent than you are in your field of expertise you might as well pay them for their time.

Shake claims IMO are one of the most difficult claims to work.Especially if your in an area where comp is dominate.Let’s face it.Shake roofs leave a dent in the bank account for both parties.They are expensive to replace and expensive to re deck.

I understand you cannot be in 2 places at once.But this is winter time even though we have had an incredible start to the year a $30,000-$40,000 shake claim gives me motivation to sit at the customers house until the adjuster arrives.I can honestly say that regardless if the claim is $5,000 or $60,000 plus., my concern is making it to the meeting.Even if I run out of gas I would grab my brief case and computer and hoof it for the money.

Being on time and making sacrifices to be on time shows determination and willingness to be there for the customer.If you cannot be there in the beginning how can the customer think you would be there down the road in the event of a problem.

And attorney’s are the worst.They are programmed to be in control.They think just because they deal with judges everyday they think they can dominate our industry too.Your attorney scenario came at a price for you but I think it gave the contracting industry a high five.I enjoy a story that shows the attorney getting hosed.It might not happen often but when it does it knocks them back down to our level.

Mark had it right.All your paperwork should have been in order prior to the adjuster meeting.Adjusters should do whats right.Most do but if they smell incompetence they will react accordingly.

I have had appointments and the adjuster called the homeowner a day ahead of time and said they are on the way.The customer already knew before hand to decline or reschedule for a later time in the day.Most homeowners will tell the adjuster they are under contingency and they want the contractor present.Most adjusters will respect that.

Being prepared for the unexpected would have worked well in your situation.Having a motivated,responsible sales person/team would have too.

BTW.,those hits on the A/C look a little to perfect to me.

[quote=“Roofmaster417”]

BTW.,those hits on the A/C look a little to perfect to me.[/quote]

Could you post a few of the shakes ?

“I go out on a roof inspection the other day for a refinance”…

OK. Irregarless of the INS. and estimating issues, did you at least file the bank report and collect the Inspection Fee for the written report with photos enclosed as required for the refinance? That fee is a given, irregardless of whether of not the roof is good or bad. Just curious.

I’m a little confused. You stated that the storm happened in April. The ac fins damage looks fairly new to me. I would think after 10 months the hail hits on the ac unit wouldn’t look so shiny. Also, the hail strikes on the ac unit doesn’t substantiate that there was baseball size hail to the house. Furthermore, I think the ac units are from 3 different houses. You have on ac that is blasted, one that has damage with different size hail and has considerably less damage and then there is the picture of the close up the guard doesn’t match either one of them. I could be totally off base though.

I would like a close up of the shake shingle. Even after 10 months the fibers in the cracked shake will not be discolored if the shingle was damaged by hail.
Good luck

[quote=“828br”]I’m a little confused. You stated that the storm happened in April. The ac fins damage looks fairly new to me. I would think after 10 months the hail hits on the ac unit wouldn’t look so shiny. Also, the hail strikes on the ac unit doesn’t substantiate that there was baseball size hail to the house. Furthermore, I think the ac units are from 3 different houses. You have on ac that is blasted, one that has damage with different size hail and has considerably less damage and then there is the picture of the close up the guard doesn’t match either one of them. I could be totally off base though.

I would like a close up of the shake shingle. Even after 10 months the fibers in the cracked shake will not be discolored if the shingle was damaged by hail.
Good luck[/quote]

I posted the pix of 3 separate units.The damage on the famous post is IMO inconsistent with multiple baseball size strikes.Those pix I posted are consistent with golf ball and 1/2 dollar and smaller strikes.I have seen grapefruit and softball size damage to structures as well as baseballs.,they all 3 devastate.,IMO there is no devastation.Has anyone else seen baseball size hail that created a debate whether there was damage or not?.,nope…

Baseballs would have blasted the sh** out of that a/c unit and the home as well as about everything on the property.A hail strike count/debate would not even be an issue.

From my experience it is impossible for an a/c unit to suffer less than 10-20 strikes when baseballs are present.those photos show 3 at the most legit strikes.Looks like they might have been helped a bit.

The pix posted is baseballs on vinyl siding.

They are for sure 3 different a/c units. Perhaps this house has 3 :?:

[quote=“dstew66”]

They are for sure 3 different a/c units. Perhaps this house has 3 :?:[/quote]

At least two.

Guys, Famous posted 1 pic of 1 AC. RM posted the others for reference.

Sorry, my bad.

However, I was correct in that they were 3 separate a/c units. :wink:

You have to get up awful early in the morning to slip one past me. :lol:

Tinner,

I wrote up my inspection report and submitted it to mortgage company. No pics required here. As far as fee, I have the HO sign a contract with my company giving me the all the proceeds of the insurance monies collected instead of collecting my inspection fee. My contract allows me to communicate directly to insurance company and receive checks in the company name.

[quote=“famous”]Tinner,
I have the HO sign a contract with my company giving me the all the proceeds of the insurance monies collected instead of collecting my inspection fee. My contract allows me to communicate directly to insurance company and receive checks in the company name./quote

??? :badgrin:,You just walked all over your initial post.So you have a refinance process that covers your claims but you don’t exercise that same process with everyday insurance claim contracting?.,Come on Famous.[/quote]

Roofmaster,

I don’t follow what you are saying?

famous, if you want to help fellow roofers, you should consider retiring from roofing and becoming an insurance adjuster, something you seem qualified for.

Dad,

Are you worried about the competition? You have stated your sentiment numerous times to me. Are you trying to be cute or funny? I certainly don’t mind if you stay in the roofing business! I am not threatened by your presence. You and a few others come across as never making mistakes. You are busting my chops on an inspection where the adjuster was 3 hours late! If you have that much time to wait around for an adjuster, then your business is not doing so well. BTW, how can some you folks post here constantly? I am down because of weather the last couple of days. Some of you guys post here 365 days a year?