Shingles, color variation

We just had new shingles put on yesterday. Looking at the roof from the street, one large patch of shingles look darker than the rest, black versus gray. The gent who owns the company said there is a powder type coating the factory puts on the shingles to keep them from sticking together and this will wash off with the first couple of rains and the shingles will match. This is a fairly large roofing company, the owner lives in the subdivision and has done probably 100 houses in the subdivision. Everyone is happy with his work as far as we can tell. Any input on whether or not the info about the anti-stick coating is accurate? The shingles are Certain Teed Landmark.

If I had to guess, Id say a different lot number got mixed in somehow. It does sometimes happen & it does look like crap. What does that mean? It means the shingle packing says the same color but its really not. It means it was made in a different batch on a different day or night. This is why I pick up my shingles personally from the supplier and check and make sure they all have matching numbers. The foreman should of atleast noticed & shuffled them in on the back of the house. If he is so confident it`ll wash off then he should let you hold the final check until it rains a couple times. Also, if its so called no stick powder, why is it only in that area & not all over? It sounds like a bullsh*t story to me.

Steve, can you post some pictures?

You got Certainteed Landmark Moire Black I presume?
I heard it was an algae prevention spray that is on them that makes a different shade.
I have done many Moire Black roofs that look a little different shade. I had one roof that went from black to grey to almost blue. Two rainy days and it was all Black. So give it a few days to weather, hopefully you get some rain.

Or it could be different lot numbers, in which no amount of rain will help. The “lot” number signifies a different batch of granules. Say a bundle from lot 1705 (example) has 65% black granules in it, and a bundle from lot 1706 has about 60% black granules, the first bundle will look darker.

If the lot numbers are the same, and after a couple rainy days you still see the color difference, call your roofer, and if he won’t do anything, call a Certainteed representative, they should take of you.
If it is a lot number difference, Certainteed won’t touch the issue. That is the fault of your roofer and supplier.

Thanks for the replies. It is indeed Certain Teed Moire Black, with the algae prevention. However, the shingles are from two different lots. There are two packs that are unopened, and they have two different lot numbers on them, and I’ve got pics of them. The guy that owns the roofing company now says that this is most likely the issue, and he’s getting someone from the place he bought the shingles to come out and take a look. Anyway, we haven’t paid a single penny yet, and if they want to get their money they’ll have to redo the roof. One of the guys working on site has already mentioned redoing the roof, so I think that’s in the works.

To be honest, it’s not really the suppliers responsibility. Don’t get me wrong, they should be sending out same lot bundles, they know better than to mix the lot numbers.
It is up to the roofing company to check lot numbers when the delivery arrives. I have gotten into the habit of checking lot numbers due to the same issue.

But it sounds like you picked a decent company who is willing to fix the issue. :slight_smile:

[quote=“bcdemon”]To be honest, it’s not really the suppliers responsibility. Don’t get me wrong, they should be sending out same lot bundles, they know better than to mix the lot numbers.
It is up to the roofing company to check lot numbers when the delivery arrives. I have gotten into the habit of checking lot numbers due to the same issue.

But it sounds like you picked a decent company who is willing to fix the issue. :)[/quote]

I think the fact we haven’t paid anything gives us some leverage, also the fact the guy lives in the subdivision and no doubt wants to have positive references since he does a lot of business in the neighborhood. It could in fact be related to the algae treatment, but the fact there are different lots involved makes me think you guys are on the right track. We’ll see how things work out. I wouldn’t have thought of the lot issue, but makes sense.

Steve, Im glad bc & I could help you out on that one. Goodluck, Id have someone pay to replace that section. Remember, hold onto your money until your happily satisfied.

I must be the only one who is on the side of the roofer. Should care of been taken to get the shingles from the same lot number? Yes. Is your roof going to fail early because of this? No.

You owe the roofer the money you agreed on. This is purely cosmetic and not poor workmanship or anything of that sort.

I am glad I have all aspects of all situations covered in my contract.

“5. Materials: Company shall provide necessary labor and materials to complete the Work as specified.** Company shall not be responsible for an exact match of any materials, including but not limited to, roofing, siding, metal work, and shingle shading.** All materials shall remain the property and title of the Company unless, at Company’s option, turned over to the Owner upon the completion of the Work. Company is not responsible for replacement of any lumber, sheathing, trim or rotted wood, or replacement parts in excess of the agreed amount unless specified in this Agreement.”

I suggest if you guys don’t have this in your contract to get it in there.

[quote=“bcdemon”]To be honest, it’s not really the suppliers responsibility. Don’t get me wrong, they should be sending out same lot bundles, they know better than to mix the lot numbers.
It is up to the roofing company to check lot numbers when the delivery arrives. I have gotten into the habit of checking lot numbers due to the same issue.

But it sounds like you picked a decent company who is willing to fix the issue. :)[/quote]

Among your many silly posts, this one ranks near or at the top. It is clearly the shingle manufacturer or shingle distributor’s problem. The only time I could put this on the roofing company would be if they made several large bulk buys of shingles, stored them in their own warehouse and then mixed them up.

I send a purchase order clearly typed and legible to the vendor. It is their responsibility to deliver the correct product period. Correct brand, correct colors, correct specifications and correct date codes. If any of those are delivered incorrectly, it is on the vendor. The roof crew that goes to the job does not have inventory control responsibilities.

Landmarks don’t have lot numbers.

Just like the roofer said, after a good rain or 2 the shade difference will go away.

Bambam, f*cking relax! If it dont look right its not what the customer intended to buy. It sounds like we might of hit a nerve with you. Have you experienced not being paid before because of something like this? Im a roofer too, & a customer holding money sucks but somebody has to make it right. I drive by jobs like that all the time, my bank & no customer should have to look at different colored patches for 30 years. If his contractor is as big & reputable as the customer is saying he will make it right. There nis nothing worse than being badmouthed by a customer, hell make it right. Hey, I worked side by side with a bambam at JD Helton Roofing in Chattanooga, TN back in 1996 & 1997, he was from W. VA. originally. That isnt you is it?

I thought Certainteed got rid of lot numbers in the early 1990’s because everything was computerized?

[quote=“Authentic_Dad”]

[quote=“bcdemon”]To be honest, it’s not really the suppliers responsibility. Don’t get me wrong, they should be sending out same lot bundles, they know better than to mix the lot numbers.
It is up to the roofing company to check lot numbers when the delivery arrives. I have gotten into the habit of checking lot numbers due to the same issue.

But it sounds like you picked a decent company who is willing to fix the issue. :)[/quote]

Among your many silly posts, this one ranks near or at the top. It is clearly the shingle manufacturer or shingle distributor’s problem. The only time I could put this on the roofing company would be if they made several large bulk buys of shingles, stored them in their own warehouse and then mixed them up.

I send a purchase order clearly typed and legible to the vendor. It is their responsibility to deliver the correct product period. Correct brand, correct colors, correct specifications and correct date codes. If any of those are delivered incorrectly, it is on the vendor. The roof crew that goes to the job does not have inventory control responsibilities.[/quote]

But AD…he can spell…

According to this customer, there is lot numbers on his stock pile & the roofing contractor agrees with him about the lot number issue. Now that he has been properly informed of this sh*t he can straighten it out.

[quote=“BAMBAMM5144”]Is your roof going to fail early because of this?
"5.Company shall not be responsible for an exact match of any materials, including but not limited to, roofing, siding, metal work, and shingle shading.[/quote]

The homeowner didn’t pay THE ROOFER $XX amount of dollars for a roof with 2 or 3 different shades.
He paid the Roofer for a solid color scheme, Moire Black. So the “roof failure” argument is out the window.
If he (HO) had paid the supplier for the materials, then it would be his (HO) responsibility. But the Roofer bought the materials off the supplier, then sold them to this homeowner. That’s what makes it the roofing companies fault. Who sold the different lot numbers to the Homeowner BAM, Supplier or Roofing company?

Now if the roofing company had a subject in their contract as yours does, or like AD where they ask the supplier specifically for identical lot numbers then fine, you have deflected responsibility. But if not, then the roofing company sold the homeowner a mix-match pile of shingles that don’t match. Their fault.

Or maybe it’s just certain companies that can’t handle a responsibility like taking 5 minutes to verify that all lot numbers are the same. Considering they are printed on the side of the bundle. I guess some roofers care about what they sell their paying customers, and some just don’t…

Actually, the Homeowner picks the shingle, we don’t. There is nothing in our contract that requires the HO to use a shingle of our choice. Further, our contract has an explicit statement regarding materials “All materials provided by Our Company are subject to Manufacturer’s Warranty only. We make no warranties, express or implied, including mechantability or fitness for a particular purpose as to any materials provided.”

In the past year, we’ve had two issues with color matching. One was with Owens Corning and while it took a little longer and bit more effort than I would have cared for, they paid for new materials and paid us the same amount as what we charged with the original install to replace the roof completely. We are presently in the process of going through one with GAF, samples have been sent into GAF, we are awaiting a response. It was done a month ago. In both situations, we immediately responded and carried the torch in working with the shingle manufacturer to honor their warranty.

Corey - No that isn’t me. I have never run into this problem on any of my jobs because I have a top-notch supplier who doesn’t do this type of thing. These things do happen. A lot of you guys tend to think we are all always on the job site to baby-sit. I am rarely every around when shingles get delivered to check. Foreman knows to check but what if he doesn’t? Should I eat that money because he screwed up? Should I eat that money because my supplier made the mistake? Should I eat the money because the homeowner doesn’t like the color?

We haven’t even seen a picture. What happens if it is normal color variation?

Everyone likes to throw the roofer under the boss. Or more specifically the owner. Cold hard fact, we aren’t a bank and don’t have never ending supply of money.

The right thing to do would be to hold back 25% of the check if that is the amount you aren’t happy with. Not the whole thing.

First, we have no pictures, so we just have one man’s opinion to go on.

Second, the roofer agreed to make this right. I make a lot of things right that are not valid. I have no idea if that is what is happening in this case.

I do not believe the customer should hold all the roofer’s money. He spent thousands on labor and materials, operating in good faith to accomplish the roof. He did accomplish the roof, albeit some undocumented color mismatch.

What also seems to have gone unnoticed is that this stray mis-colored shingle group probably cannot be properly identified now. There are two different numbers there(?), but which is which. Are there even any of either lot number available now?

I recommend that the customer pay the roofer almost all the money to at least cover his out-of-pocket costs. I do not feel very good about this homeowner punishing the roofer far, far beyond the “crime”.

Trust is a two way street. The customer did trust the roofer to do the job, and he may or may not have done that correctly. Pictures could help sort that out. The roofer trusts the customer to pay him, but he definitely did not fulfill his part of the trust. The roofer has been severely hurt by this already. He is out of pocket thousands. That is unnecessary, as the customer says he has all signs that this guy is reputable.

[quote=“bcdemon”]

[quote=“BAMBAMM5144”]Is your roof going to fail early because of this?
"5.Company shall not be responsible for an exact match of any materials, including but not limited to, roofing, siding, metal work, and shingle shading.[/quote]

The homeowner didn’t pay THE ROOFER $XX amount of dollars for a roof with 2 or 3 different shades.
He paid the Roofer for a solid color scheme, Moire Black. So the “roof failure” argument is out the window.
If he (HO) had paid the supplier for the materials, then it would be his (HO) responsibility. But the Roofer bought the materials off the supplier, then sold them to this homeowner. That’s what makes it the roofing companies fault. Who sold the different lot numbers to the Homeowner BAM, Supplier or Roofing company?

Now if the roofing company had a subject in their contract as yours does, or like AD where they ask the supplier specifically for identical lot numbers then fine, you have deflected responsibility. But if not, then the roofing company sold the homeowner a mix-match pile of shingles that don’t match. Their fault.

Or maybe it’s just certain companies that can’t handle a responsibility like taking 5 minutes to verify that all lot numbers are the same. Considering they are printed on the side of the bundle. I guess some roofers care about what they sell their paying customers, and some just don’t…[/quote]

Oh bc…when you buy a truck, Dodge,Ford,Chevy whatever, when something breaks, do you go after the car dealer you bought it off? or the company that makes them?